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Thread: Brother-sister Mating

  
  1. #811
    Senior Member GG Crasher's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunke8888 View Post
    Hi Crasher,

    How many mattings of B-S did you use I your trial?
    1 matting from 1 family? 2 or more mattings from 1 family?
    1mating from 2 or families? or 2 or more mattings from several families?

    TKS Crasher

    yunke8888
    hi yunker,
    not yet on the plan to do the bro/sister mating....

    I have an off-season late Feb'14 born to be used for 2014-2015 breeding season. A single pair bro/sis (7/8 1/8) I put them on a pen for hardening but the brother most of the time topping on his sister, she laying and now setting on her eggs that due to hatch next week...

    We will wait & see what's the outcome....

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  3. #812
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by GG Crasher View Post
    hi yunker,
    not yet on the plan to do the bro/sister mating....

    I have an off-season late Feb'14 born to be used for 2014-2015 breeding season. A single pair bro/sis (7/8 1/8) I put them on a pen for hardening but the brother most of the time topping on his sister, she laying and now setting on her eggs that due to hatch next week...

    We will wait & see what's the outcome....
    TKS crasher--Keep us posted on this mating(s), I am thinking of running a test mating this coming breeding season. Single mating 2 full sisters to their 2 full brothers. Since the friend where I got them from claims that they are highly inbred already, I am planning to keep accurate individual records from the beginning of the trial. The plan is to record # of eggs layed/pullet/year, % of chicks hatched un-assisted/mating, % of chicks released to range after feathered, % harvested from range, #/% culled & reason for it, home testing & evaluating stag's performance Vs other bloodlines & strains, between 10-12 mos of age. If successful might have something left to moult through the 2016 summer.


    My main concern is that once you get the genetics locked, it will be hard to select for improvement afterwards. Another concern is the #s of stags that can survive the ruthless testing & culling required of them, will it be economically feasible or will it be a waste of resources under such limited # of mattings. Time will tell.

    By the way all this trials and testing will be done at 1 of my ranches in NE Mexico, where it is completely legal. No sense in wasting good genetic resources to loose them under the new dictatorial laws in our Great Country- Long Live the Good Old USA and Our Constitution that has been trampled so much by corrupt enemies of Our Freedom(s).

    Keep them Crowing,

    yunke8888


    PS: By the way, yunke (Spanish)=Anvil (English)--a tool used by forgers/farriers to forge iron and steel, by heating it & hammering it with brute force into a different shape. I picked that pseudonym as it represents my will & determination to shape the genetics, phenotype & performance in my fowl and livestock.
    Last edited by Yunke8888; October 19th, 2014 at 04:12 AM.

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  5. #813
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Can someone tell me how to vaccinate my chicks what vaccines are needed and days of chicks age when to administer staring with merecks I know its day one but what follows?

  6. #814
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    this breeding technique is neither good or bad. from my limited understanding, this technique is mostly used if a breeder wants to create a strain or what others call locking the gene when they hit the "nick". but there are many ways to skin a cat. i've done this many times, and the end result is always satisfying.

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  8. #815
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by GG Crasher View Post
    hi yunker,
    not yet on the plan to do the bro/sister mating....

    I have an off-season late Feb'14 born to be used for 2014-2015 breeding season. A single pair bro/sis (7/8 1/8) I put them on a pen for hardening but the brother most of the time topping on his sister, she laying and now setting on her eggs that due to hatch next week...

    We will wait & see what's the outcome....
    Hi Crasher,

    How are this chicks doing? they should be around 3 mos old now. Did you get more than 1 setting from this matting?

    Keep us posted,

    yunke8888

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  10. #816
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Keep it going people !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  11. #817
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    Re: brother & sister mating

    Quote Originally Posted by epcvirus View Post
    As far as I know, brother and sister mating is the shortest way in making seedfowls. I just heard this from a breeder friend.
    Anybody there? correct me if I'm wrong. I also want to know what is true

    :innocent:
    As a cattle rancher in the past I never bred full brothers to full sisters, as I was afraid to end up with a disaster crop of calves for the year, although
    I bought a bull once that was out of a B/S mating. He was picture perfect
    conformation wise & although he was not one of the largest or heaviest ones
    that I ever used, he was not small either, just average size.
    This B/S bull, turned out very prepotent, imprinting himself on most of his offspring.

    I have never done any inbreeding that close on fowl either, but I am convinced
    that B/S mattings, is the shortest route to find out how stout is your bloodline.
    You can find out in 1 or 2 generations of B/S matings, how much dirt is in them.
    If you find a few stout offspring in each generation, keep going further with them.
    You should be able to clean most any junk if any, in 4 to 6 generations.

    IMO: The secret is #s, so as not to end up empty handed. A fair # of B/S matings with a good # of offspring/mating, should allow you to test, select & cull rigorously. When a matting produces all offspring vigorous & healthy, without
    any visible or palpable defects, keep going. If a matting produces mixed
    offspring, Keep Going with the Best & Cull the Rest, eventually you can clean
    most of the junk. If a matting produces mainly junk, trash it.

    You can clean up "Most" undesirable traits and characteristics by using this
    system for several generations. "EXCEPT LACK Of GAMENESS".

    You can turn a solid bloodline into a DUNGHILL, but you CAN NOT turn a DUNHILL
    into a GAME COCK.

    JMO,
    Last edited by Yunke8888; December 2nd, 2016 at 07:46 AM.

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  13. #818
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    Re: QUESTION OF ECONOMICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunke8888 View Post
    I agree, the higher the IC, the more uniformity, but the lower the vigor.
    Vigorous health, high alertness, excellent timing, accurate cutting, aggressive gameness & bottom are all essential traits in each individual selected as a keeper. The concentration and preservation of these essential traits supersedes any and all aesthetic traits and names.

    Keep them Crowing

    yunke8888
    In the 2 years since I wrote this post, I have been following 2 families of inbred
    fowl who are producing very vigorous & healthy offspring. 1 of this families is
    anchored by an old pair of Kelso,that are at least 2nd. generation B/S. They have produced a 3rd generation which has produced a 4th generation B/S & all this
    offspring look & act very healthy & vigorous. They have performed just like you would expect from a high quality crossbred. The other family is headed by
    a pair of 6th generation B/S Regular Grey & have produced 7th. & 8th. generation descendants, as good & game as the best.

    This 2 old pair and their descendants have made a believer out of me.
    They might be the needle in a hay stack, but they are out there.

    yunke8888

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  15. #819
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    Re: brother & sister mating

    some people have used bro-sis mating from time to time. you have to use it if that is the only ones you have left. then you will have to make sub families from there. lets also say that you have made a cross with two different families that are similar in style , looks ect. and you now want to make a family of this cross that are special in your eyes. this is when you make a bro-sis mating of the very best ones and again make sub families of these bro-sis offspring. maybe you should breed more than one bro-sis mating and see which ones you like the best. this is how you set your " new family " to carry on.

  16. #820
    Senior Member yard bird's Avatar
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    Re: QUESTION OF ECONOMICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunke8888 View Post
    In the 2 years since I wrote this post, I have been following 2 families of inbred
    fowl who are producing very vigorous & healthy offspring. 1 of this families is
    anchored by an old pair of Kelso,that are at least 2nd. generation B/S. They have produced a 3rd generation which has produced a 4th generation B/S & all this
    offspring look & act very healthy & vigorous. They have performed just like you would expect from a high quality crossbred. The other family is headed by
    a pair of 6th generation B/S Regular Grey & have produced 7th. & 8th. generation descendants, as good & game as the best.

    This 2 old pair and their descendants have made a believer out of me.
    They might be the needle in a hay stack, but they are out there.

    yunke8888
    I got a family of reds that are bred as deep and the pure inbred ones can hang with any cross I've ever sit them down with

    Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk

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  18. #821
    Senior Member yard bird's Avatar
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    Re: QUESTION OF ECONOMICS

    Quote Originally Posted by Yunke8888 View Post
    In the 2 years since I wrote this post, I have been following 2 families of inbred
    fowl who are producing very vigorous & healthy offspring. 1 of this families is
    anchored by an old pair of Kelso,that are at least 2nd. generation B/S. They have produced a 3rd generation which has produced a 4th generation B/S & all this
    offspring look & act very healthy & vigorous. They have performed just like you would expect from a high quality crossbred. The other family is headed by
    a pair of 6th generation B/S Regular Grey & have produced 7th. & 8th. generation descendants, as good & game as the best.

    This 2 old pair and their descendants have made a believer out of me.
    They might be the needle in a hay stack, but they are out there.

    yunke8888
    The key to bs is testing testing testing of the stags breed the very best one to his sisters and test test test again but then again imo testing hard is the key to raising gamecocks period

    Sent from my LGL16C using Tapatalk

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  20. #822
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Bump.........................................

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  22. #823
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    I made a b/s mating this year use'in my Dominican fowl the Dominican's have always came with black hens/pullets and black/red cocks/stags.This year I got a white stag.So I called the guy that gave them to me and asked if he had ever breed any white blood in them or ever got any white's?He said no to both?We called the old man that gave them to him and asked,he said that he used a white cock a long time back,he asked why are we ask'in so I told him that I got a white stag this year,he told me to breed him to the first hen that was given to me and that I should be pleased with the out come the mating.

  23. #824
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by whitehackle223 View Post
    this breeding technique is neither good or bad. from my limited understanding, this technique is mostly used if a breeder wants to create a strain or what others call locking the gene when they hit the "nick". but there are many ways to skin a cat. i've done this many times, and the end result is always satisfying.
    What I notice that most breeder are just repeating what others had done and didn't even notice it. Even if you cross to other with the same line breed it is the same thing bec maybe both originated from same ancestral origin. The only trawback existed by not knowing they don't have comon ancestor.

  24. #825
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Good thread, bump.............................................. .................

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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Not all breeds can withstand it.. most will fall apart pretty quick in my opinion.. but the ones that can, can be kept consistent for a very long time with no outside blood.. I wasnt convinced until I got my whitehackles.

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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    I've tried it with my white i done only once i tried to show some stags and still won but their size and height went down and feather gets weaker some are mean i know they are not that solid so i infuse another strain of white and boom vigor sets in..need to test them in cock show next year...

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  29. #828
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Talbo19 View Post
    I've tried it with my white i done only once i tried to show some stags and still won but their size and height went down and feather gets weaker some are mean i know they are not that solid so i infuse another strain of white and boom vigor sets in..need to test them in cock show next year...
    Sounds good Talbo. You did the right thing, used those tight bred offspring to cross. What you got as a result is what should happen when used in that way.
    Best wishes
    SF

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  31. #829
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    Sounds good Talbo. You did the right thing, used those tight bred offspring to cross. What you got as a result is what should happen when used in that way.
    Best wishes
    SF
    I think one thing that made them look good because of the bloodline that came from USA and i got it from Heavy D when he was with Diane lawler their sta Rosa white.. But still hoping they will do good when i show them... I promise you they look good...lol

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    Re: Brother-sister Mating


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    Re: Brother-sister Mating


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    Re: Brother-sister Mating


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    Re: Brother-sister Mating


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  43. #835
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Their faces are identical to the Sta Rosa white Broodcock..hope the winnings will be identical too if not they will be identically go to hot pot...lol

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  45. #836
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by L&Mfarms View Post
    Not all breeds can withstand it.. most will fall apart pretty quick in my opinion.. but the ones that can, can be kept consistent for a very long time with no outside blood.. I wasnt convinced until I got my whitehackles.
    My take on this kind of breeding as well. I’m guessing, the ones that can withstand it are called the Foundation bloodlines.
    But I don’t blame people for trying to experiment on it, specially if they find a cross or strain to their liking. It surely is a fun hobby for chicken lovers.

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  47. #837
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by Talbo19 View Post
    I think one thing that made them look good because of the bloodline that came from USA and i got it from Heavy D when he was with Diane lawler their sta Rosa white.. But still hoping they will do good when i show them... I promise you they look good...lol
    For sure Talbo, that's the final test I hear you. BUT when we Bro Sis mate, we have to clear those obstacles of phenotype in how they came out. Its a big thing, far more than with a heteroZy cross because the gene pool is so tight that the possibility of a bad alignment is alot higher. As you mentioned, your Bro Sis came out lighter boned and feathers not how you wanted them. They have to be healthy, have all their toes and fingers Lol etc, you know what I mean. Also they have to act right and not be crazy so there alot of things we look for and evaluate.
    I once got 3 outstanding brothers as far as phenotype from a Bro Sis mating that were up in age already. 2 were not right in the head though but they looked great Lol! Needless to say I only got to keep one but I was fine with it, my intent was just for seed stock. Hope it all goes well and yes they look good after the infusion!
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; October 11th, 2019 at 05:58 AM.

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  49. #838
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    One of the most intelligent post on breeding I have read on Sabong. Appears some are making advancements in their knowledge. Ace good post, spot on.
    Last edited by RayBoles; October 12th, 2019 at 01:56 AM.

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  51. #839
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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    For sure Talbo, that's the final test I hear you. BUT when we Bro Sis mate, we have to clear those obstacles of phenotype in how they came out. Its a big thing, far more than with a heteroZy cross because the gene pool is so tight that the possibility of a bad alignment is alot higher. As you mentioned, your Bro Sis came out lighter boned and feathers not how you wanted them. They have to be healthy, have all their toes and fingers Lol etc, you know what I mean. Also they have to act right and not be crazy so there alot of things we look for and evaluate.
    I once got 3 outstanding brothers as far as phenotype from a Bro Sis mating that were up in age already. 2 were not right in the head though but they looked great Lol! Needless to say I only got to keep one but I was fine with it, my intent was just for seed stock. Hope it all goes well and yes they look good after the infusion!
    SF
    Forgot to reply on this.. Yes there are some they so called breeding depression i have a few that are scared when you are approaching(culled) abiut the bones is not much only the leg alignment get worse coz even the pair i got from beginning has C shank for the hen and BC right leg a liitle bit out but i didnt mind it coz am winning the offsprings.. To make the story short i ended up BS in some of the whites. Some are in good shape though most i show them stags and still have good winning percwntage but most won only once coz theyre severely wounded also so i have a few winners left but my problem is the feathers keep on falling seems like none stop some are cocks now but a bit low stationed which am afraid they will pass to their offspring since they are lnbred.lol.. But now i crossed them to Sta Rosa and the picture above are the result.. Excited to show them... I have some linebred to original mom too which are good for seedstock now breesing to 50/50starosa and my white... I think if i BS again i will for the second time ill get all junk..lol...I think they are right its expensive to make a line or even maintain a line coz you have to brees lots of them to find good one but still not an assurance until u test them so if they failed its another headache...lol.. We select the good ones especially the pullets straight legs, good body, at least close to good one to make a brood..
    Last edited by Talbo19; October 12th, 2019 at 02:49 AM.

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    Re: Brother-sister Mating

    Anyway am still learning.. And i think its more expensive than going to a university....lol

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