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Thread: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

  
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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Starting another thread more appriate to what we're discussing on another.

    Now, chickens been around for 50 million years or so. I wonder how they survived without mans antibiotics & vaccines?

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    When the "plague" hit Europe and everyone was croking. Does anybody here realize NOT everyone got sick? Those people are some of our ancestors. Some of us have a natural immunity to the disease thanks to them surviving.

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    I think the biggest reason to cockers using medications/ vaccines is GREED! We want ALL our chickens to survive.
    Thats not how NATURE works. Diseases take the WEAK & preditors take the slow, stupid & blind.
    Nature is doing us a service. By us medicating we are creating a house of cards that will EVENTUALLY collapse. Not now but in 5-10-15 years or so. Artificially "propping up" fowl is a no win situation. Look how we have RUINED it for HUMANS. There has never been a more greater rate of sickly, weak babies born till now. You know why? Cause the WEAK breed.
    In humans, I get the argument to saving the weak. Were spitting in the wind, but I get it, but doing the same with chickens???
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; May 18th, 2017 at 10:49 PM.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    I think the biggest reason to cockers using medications/ vaccines is GREED! We want ALL our chickens to survive.
    Thats not how NATURE works. Diseases take the WEAK & preditors take the slow, stupid & blind.
    Nature is doing us a service. By us medicating we are creating a house of cards that will EVENTUALLY collapse. Not now but in 5-10-15 years or so. Artificially "propping up" fowl is a no win situation. Look how we have RUINED it for HUMANS. There has never been a more greater rate of sickly, weak babies born till now. You know why? Cause the WEAK breed.
    In humans, I get the argument to saving the weak. Were spitting in the wind, but I get it, but doing the same with chickens???
    I agree immunity is built up. I never get a flu vaccine. Guess what I never get sick. During a Keep a month out I give everyone Tylan for 5 days. Now none of them are actually sick that I can see. It is just in case. I do not vaccinate anything

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonMurphy View Post
    I agree immunity is built up. I never get a flu vaccine. Guess what I never get sick. During a Keep a month out I give everyone Tylan for 5 days. Now none of them are actually sick that I can see. It is just in case. I do not vaccinate anything
    Nonwhere in medicine do you find a doctor prescribing antibiotics to a
    person or animal whose NOT sick! Why is a chicken treated different?
    What were all doing by giving antiobiotics IMPROPERLY is making bacteria stronger, therefore making it HARDER for our fowl to naturally & ARTIFICIALLY fight off disease.
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; May 18th, 2017 at 11:15 PM.

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    Senior Member vizzard n tassl's Avatar
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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    When I first got heavy involved with chickens I vaccinated for everything One little sniffle gave antibiotic my mentor one day was over had one that was blue faced when working he said let me see him I got the cure for that took him by legs stretch his neck told me the only cure for weakness breed them stronger if a little virus will hurt them for gods sake don't heel them up they might get hit
    He told me to though all that sht in the garbage and start raising tougher chickens you are not running a hospital
    After a few years my winnings went up and never looked back they die they die better at home than in the pit


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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Mongoose I also raise production fowl ie broilers and egg producers,none of which get any antibiotics,pumpin seeds as a wormer.My game fowl get the same treatment.
    When sick get they get culled no questions asked,a buddy asked me what meds should he have so I asked for him as he likes to run a hospital.I think that we small timers/backyarders do need something for cocci and crd.
    On another note I have a very inbred cock that won a show two weeks ago,the 1" aluminum was driven right though his eye now has this foul smelling canker like substance
    coming from it.I don't want to cull him as he is the only one that I have left after some dog killed about 70% of my game fowl then I culled the bitch.How can I fix this problem
    with out culling with out meds?

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by mctrott View Post
    Mongoose I also raise production fowl ie broilers and egg producers,none of which get any antibiotics,pumpin seeds as a wormer.My game fowl get the same treatment.
    When sick get they get culled no questions asked,a buddy asked me what meds should he have so I asked for him as he likes to run a hospital.I think that we small timers/backyarders do need something for cocci and crd.
    On another note I have a very inbred cock that won a show two weeks ago,the 1" aluminum was driven right though his eye now has this foul smelling canker like substance
    coming from it.I don't want to cull him as he is the only one that I have left after some dog killed about 70% of my game fowl then I culled the bitch.How can I fix this problem
    with out culling with out meds?
    A friend whose been at this game since ive been alive made an interesting point about giving antibiotics. He said it was a waste of time. He said that the natural temperature of chickens is far higher than humans. That there body kills microbes our DONT. It up to you. I get why u would treat with antibiotics. Im not against trying it in certain circumstances.
    Like i said earlier, when I have used it. "It probably makes me feel more better than it does the chicken".

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    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    A winning , game strain with natural immunity to everything would be great .... if normal trios are going for $1,000 and up , what would one of those cost me ?

    My Asil grades last year never got sick , not a single one ... problem is , I raised from the hen side this year and culled four clutches for being a little off ... not sick , just not where they should have been so out goes the Asil theory .

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    I think most grades are a little healthier that straight American fowl. And I also believe you can breed and build immunity to some virus and disease. Just as you can breed for other things like mental stability. I really can't say how gentle my fowl were when I first got them but 50 years later they are the happiest, gentlest, and struttingest fowl I've ever witnessed. And I've had many tell me the same thing. I truly believe it is and was a genetic thing much like being resistant to disease.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    A winning , game strain with natural immunity to everything would be great .... if normal trios are going for $1,000 and up , what would one of those cost me ? My Asil grades last year never got sick , not a single one ... problem is , I raised from the hen side this year and culled four clutches for being a little off ... not sick , just not where they should have been so out goes the Asil theory .
    How much would it cost?? I know people who arent big medicators and they have very good fowl that will cost you the same as the big boys, BUT you dont have to worry about buying a trio QP., with all your knowledge you could make high quality trios lickity-split.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Do you think that a cross bred chicken would have better immune than an inbred one?

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by trueedge View Post
    Do you think that a cross bred chicken would have better immune than an inbred one?
    Yes, they usually do. If they dont. There normally not worth a damn.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    How much would it cost?? I know people who arent big medicators and they have very good fowl that will cost you the same as the big boys, BUT you dont have to worry about buying a trio QP., with all your knowledge you could make high quality trios lickity-split.
    Go ahead and send me the price and contact info ... I want some cutting , power fowl that are game and good as stags ...and they won't get sick on me or lose very often .

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    Go ahead and send me the price and contact info ... I want some cutting , power fowl that are game and good as stags ...and they won't get sick on me or lose very often .

    Come on Qwa. You already know no one has as good as you. You proved it this year remember?

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    Go ahead and send me the price and contact info ... I want some cutting , power fowl that are game and good as stags ...and they won't get sick on me or lose very often .
    If your serious. You should already know that strong immune system in the north is different than a strong immune system in the south. I always try to tell people to get fowl from their area. There likely to be resistant to microorganisms on their place.

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    Senior Member JLF's Avatar
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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Hell it looks like everyone just needs to go ahead and get a bachelor's degree in poultry science or you'll never win a derby..

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    If they have a college corse for Winning I'd enroll.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    my votes for you to be the professor mr del.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    I'm am getting hit hard right now and so is everyone in my area. I am not sure if it is really bad CRD or Coryza. Tylan is not really helping. Their Sinus cavities are getting clogged up and their mouths are getting real slimey. We have been basically just letting it run its course, most are getting over it, and I have only lost about maybe 10ish. We still have about 150ish stags running loose so we will have plenty. We do have an injectable that is a lot stronger than tylan that I bought for times like this. We have only injected about a handful of stags that have gotten really bad and it knocks it out right away. But for the majority we just let them fight it off.

    Friends of mine in the area have already lost about half of what they hatched this season to it. But, they are the type that always have antibiotics in the water for no reason. Now that this tougher strain hit they are really struggling with it.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    I have a story its not about gamefowl but its related to medication, 2 years ago I got me 4 baby bantam chicks 1 week old I was so exited they were show quality mom and dad where beautiful they turn out to be 2 boys 2 girls , had them in my basement, well 4 weeks later one got sick I didn't know what is was he was not eating and had to hand feed him for about 1 week gave him some antibiotics till he started eating by him self, at about 4 months old the one chick who never got sick was looking awesome he was my favorite the sick one looked ok feathers were not as shiny etc, a friend of my ask me If I could give him one of the boys and if course I have him the one that had gotten sick and didn't look as good as the other one, months later my bantam rooster was looking awesome so i was telling my self i kept the good one it was until i saw my now frieds rooster i was like wow he turned out even better than mine shiny looked healthy he even said to me see you gave me the ugly one and now look a him had it for 2 years never got sick till hi have it away.. so a little medication worked out for me but these are show bantams..

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    When all your fowl get sick, culling is out of the question. I understand.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by JLF View Post
    Hell it looks like everyone just needs to go ahead and get a bachelor's degree in poultry science or you'll never win a derby..
    "Common sense" and "giving a damn" will get you farther than any college education. Unfortunately most people don't care to have either.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    "Common sense" and "giving a damn" will get you farther than any college education. Unfortunately most people don't care to have either.
    I would like us to set on the back porch and discuss the possibilities that could be. I think you could enlighten me. I'm an open book.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    I would like us to set on the back porch and discuss the possibilities that could be. I think you could enlighten me. I'm an open book.
    I wish I could be there to take in all in and put it to use.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    I would like us to set on the back porch and discuss the possibilities that could be. I think you could enlighten me. I'm an open book.
    Naw, I KNOW you know more about making winners than I. I have my gifts like everyone else but they don't make me $$$$ LOL.
    Id love to pick your brain if you'll share.
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; May 19th, 2017 at 10:56 AM.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    I would like us to set on the back porch and discuss the possibilities that could be. I think you could enlighten me. I'm an open book.
    That is one thing I would like two have back sitting on the porch with my mentor talking chickens all afternoon learned a lot on them hot afternoons listening to his days long ago
    Passing knowledge like that are a thing of the past
    If I was a young one and lived near blue I would move in until he took me under his wing or ran me off with the shotgun as that happened once but he came around just took a couple years but he was a grumpy one man and I was only 17 lol



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    Senior Member southernX's Avatar
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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    There is usually a reason if you sit and think why fowl get sick. Good strong well cared for healthy fowl just don't get sick. You need to think, like Charlie carr said it hurts to think. LOL So many folks see a fowl not up to snuff and just start giving it crap without even knowing what, when or how it got what it did. If you use a hatchet like me that policy works well. But if you medicate then you can be doing more harm then good. It amazes me to see the amount of folks that I guess cant read. Because almost any injectable or powdered form of medicine gives instructions right on the bottle or bag. But yet you always see someone ask how much do I give or how many days do I give it for. Now for me health sits right up there with Gameness and cut. I wouldn't care if 90% of my fowl got sick. I would kill every last one of them. I don't need cold fowl, fowl that cant cut or weak fowl susceptible to disease.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    There is a time for culling and a time for medicating, its up to each to decide for themselves.

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    Re: Natural immunity Vs. medications/vaccines

    Quote Originally Posted by southernX View Post
    There is usually a reason if you sit and think why fowl get sick. Good strong well cared for healthy fowl just don't get sick. You need to think, like Charlie carr said it hurts to think. LOL So many folks see a fowl not up to snuff and just start giving it crap without even knowing what, when or how it got what it did. If you use a hatchet like me that policy works well. But if you medicate then you can be doing more harm then good. It amazes me to see the amount of folks that I guess cant read. Because almost any injectable or powdered form of medicine gives instructions right on the bottle or bag. But yet you always see someone ask how much do I give or how many days do I give it for. Now for me health sits right up there with Gameness and cut. I wouldn't care if 90% of my fowl got sick. I would kill every last one of them. I don't need cold fowl, fowl that cant cut or weak fowl susceptible to disease.
    Well said.....................

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