Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 42

Thread: The bird or the feeder

  
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    26
    Post Thanks / Like

    The bird or the feeder

    so if he comes out cuts he's opponent to ribbons. And wins easy was he on point or was just bred to do just that. if couldn't bust a balloon and cuts short all night. did over he go over? Was he dried out. Or was in genetic makeup. What's your thoughts. I'm talking about gaff fighting. and when it was legal of course!. D.B.A

  2. #2
    Member Chad Bolan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    288
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Good cocks make for good feeders! Good feeders are able to get a cock to fight better than he has ever sparred and reach his ability in every category. A bad feeder can take an Ace cock and make him look ordinary or worse. So it is actually a combination of both to be competitive in top competition.

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    I don't think any feeder can get a cock to show any better than he's bred.The best feeders get the maximum ability while average feeders get 75 percent at best from the same fowl and a bad feeder will get 50 percent at best.Ace cocks make great feeders and pitters.Just my opinion.RCR

  4. Likes chester, RHman1026, lawgreyman14 liked this post
  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Central Fl
    Posts
    446
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    A good feeder gets the maximum genetic potential from a large percentage of birds. The possibilities to ruin a cock are endless.

  6. #5
    Senior Member BamaOkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Twilight Zone
    Posts
    5,726
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    What I observed over my cocking lifetime. Few cockers can feed any type bird and win! Most cockers can only win 50% no matter what breed or how hard they try. I seen the feeder win with birds no one else could. Think on this Who besides Boles had his record with American grade Asils. Who besides Carol NeSmith really put sweaters on the map. The Sammy entry no one could match their record in my life time I dont think. I hear little of their fowl since they quit.
    Yes great birds make good feeders But great feeders have more than proven their mark in cocking history. Feeder makes the difference all things being equal besides that. Many I did not mention but we all can think of the boys we knew never sat a bad one down.

  7. #6
    Senior Member gaff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    2,259
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    You need both and luck, to get in the winners circle.

  8. Thanks LaBlue thanked for this post
  9. #7
    Senior Member lucasemerson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    kentucky
    Posts
    2,218
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by BamaOkie View Post
    What I observed over my cocking lifetime. Few cockers can feed any type bird and win! Most cockers can only win 50% no matter what breed or how hard they try. I seen the feeder win with birds no one else could. Think on this Who besides Boles had his record with American grade Asils. Who besides Carol NeSmith really put sweaters on the map. The Sammy entry no one could match their record in my life time I dont think. I hear little of their fowl since they quit.
    Yes great birds make good feeders But great feeders have more than proven their mark in cocking history. Feeder makes the difference all things being equal besides that. Many I did not mention but we all can think of the boys we knew never sat a bad one down.
    I think one think those guys also had was a great eye for selection before puttin in the keep...I think that is prolly the most important point in puttin up roosters to really compete at a high level

    Lucas

  10. Likes RLaurent14, KevinG, gaff, lawgreyman14, LaBlue liked this post
  11. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    306
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by gaff View Post
    You need both and luck, to get in the winners circle.
    And all at the same time.

  12. Likes gaff, lawgreyman14, LaBlue liked this post
  13. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    1,131
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    The feeder is the Man. Jerks buy high priced fowl all the time and can't win. The soft hands of a great feeder, is just one art to master. A master feeder will beat you 9 times out of 10 with your own fowl. If you went out and played a Master chess play, there is a good chance that you would never win once in your life time. To the brave men and women of cockfighting, congrads to you if you were that one out ten winner. 1 out of 10 is a start to build on. If you don't have great fowl, you can find them, but you can't buy, the God given magic that makes some cockers Hero's and other zeros.

  14. Thanks BamaOkie thanked for this post
  15. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    4,481
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Great cocks are always in the fight unless they been poisoned. But great feeders are in the winner circle time after time showing different farms cocks. It is a 50/50 deal I think.

  16. #11
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,763
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    The feeder is 100% of it up until you bill them up ... he selects , it's his judgement on when they are ready , which ones to put in and all that stuff ... the feeder MAKES the show .

    After they bill up ... it's 100% on the rooster , when they get stuck there is nothing the feeder can do but stand back and watch .

    The roosters mean more though , more exceptional crosses have put feeders in the winner's circle than feeders have put sorry ones in .

  17. #12
    Senior Member BamaOkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Twilight Zone
    Posts
    5,726
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Sorry ones WTF did they come into the picture. A feeder would never select a sorry one. Sorry ones should get culled.

  18. #13
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,763
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    No sorry ones ever make it to the shows ? hmmm , that's a new one to me ... a good feeder's job is to cull the sorry ones and put the good ones in ? I think i JUST read that somewhere ... my post is probably wrong , that's why it shows up under my name and not someone else's that would get blamed for typing such rubbish

  19. #14
    Senior Member BamaOkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Twilight Zone
    Posts
    5,726
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    No sorry ones ever make it to the shows ? hmmm , that's a new one to me ... a good feeder's job is to cull the sorry ones and put the good ones in ? I think i JUST read that somewhere ... my post is probably wrong , that's why it shows up under my name and not someone else's that would get blamed for typing such rubbish
    You and Rubbish I can agree!

  20. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    I guess once a man learns to feed roosters he can quit trying to improve the performance of his fowl through selection of breeding stock.That sure will take a lot of the headache out of it.We won't have any use for master breeders anymore.The old timers didn't have a clue about sport.The BEST ROOSTER usually wins regardless of who feeds him.RCR

  21. Likes KevinG liked this post
  22. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Hungary
    Posts
    1,131
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    River, I think that once he learns one thing, there is always more to learn. Lucky for me I am old enough to have to relearn what I have forgot. I think the last thing is pretty fowl. You have to get everything else right first.

  23. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    333
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    I totally agree that great feeders have a place at the table in this great sport.All I am saying is no matter how much you know you can't feed HEART in a rooster.This is my opinion and nothing more but I truly believe the battle is won or lost in the [Brood Pen].Everything else is secondary.If you have sub par fowl you will get sub par results come show day.I know we can all think of someone who has the best facilities imaginable for training fowl yet never seems to break the ice when it comes to winning a good percentage.On the other hand people that don't have first class facilities seems to show very consistent most evey time out.Why is this?I think the brood pen is speaking volumes.Great discussion.I think back to what my uncle once said,You will never see a Quarter Horse win the Kentucky Derby no matter who trains him.LOL.RCR

  24. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    68
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Selection is the key word in this sport. It is something a top level feeder & breeder must possess but not necessarily in the same way. I agree that without top quality fowl, everything is a waste of time but what seperates top level roosters as they only get so good? A breeder & feeder have to know their roosters & cater to them. All are different & you have to find the key to each one. Breeding & maintaining a quality family of fowl at a high level over a long period of time is in my opinion the most difficult thing to do in this game. Most people do not have the time & patience to do it & most of them that do, do not have the ability to select & cull. Huge difference between breeders & chicken raisers. Feeders also have to select & cull but for different reasons. Your job as a feeder is to figure out the ability level of each individual you have up, start to read his natural cycle & build your conditioning program around him & try to catch and point him towards his peak. There is no right or wrong way to accomplish this & you will never read a book or on here about what to do. It is a game of variables & you are constantly adapting. Many great feeders make horrible breeders & vice versa but if you do not have an eye for what a real rooster is, you will never move forward.

  25. Likes Quapaw Kid liked this post
  26. #19
    Senior Member vizzard n tassl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,228
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    I've been told many times that I had them very sharp tonight by many but being Truthfully I'm not all that
    Either I'm lucky enough to get easier draws or I've just got better chickens than my opponents that day
    After many years of trying out many keeps and different methods I come to the conclusion that it's the breeding that matters most not anything to do with me don't get me wrong they are very healthy when set down
    So I've found a happy medium between perfect and right there
    I found my edge in the brood pen as that has made me a very tough and hard to walk through


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  27. Likes RLaurent14, LaBlue liked this post
  28. #20
    Member Chad Bolan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    288
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    No sorry ones ever make it to the shows ? hmmm , that's a new one to me ... a good feeder's job is to cull the sorry ones and put the good ones in ? I think i JUST read that somewhere ... my post is probably wrong , that's why it shows up under my name and not someone else's that would get blamed for typing such rubbish
    Quapaw I got to totally disagree with you here. I agree with BamaOkie, a sorry cock should have never even been put in the pre-keep must less been in the keep and in the lot to pick from on fight day. I am talking about 16 to 24 cocks put up that have already been culled threw, let the pre-keep cull the rest allowing the cream to make it thru to the keep only to pick the sharpest ones that day! Never should a sorry cock even be into consideration to be kept period. I just don't understand why a person would have a sorry one in the bunch.

  29. Likes RLaurent14, lawgreyman14 liked this post
  30. #21
    Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    southeast tn
    Posts
    116
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Ol timers always said dont have to be the best just have to meet one yours can whop.

  31. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Location
    Central Fl
    Posts
    446
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    The ability of the cock comes from the brood pen, having the cock at the point to preform the best possible is the job of the feeder.

  32. Likes RLaurent14 liked this post
  33. #23
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,763
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Bolan View Post
    Quapaw I got to totally disagree with you here. I agree with BamaOkie, a sorry cock should have never even been put in the pre-keep must less been in the keep and in the lot to pick from on fight day. I am talking about 16 to 24 cocks put up that have already been culled threw, let the pre-keep cull the rest allowing the cream to make it thru to the keep only to pick the sharpest ones that day! Never should a sorry cock even be into consideration to be kept period. I just don't understand why a person would have a sorry one in the bunch.

    I don't understand it either , but I've seen plenty and set some down myself ... maybe I shouldn't have said that , but it's true .. my first year in the game , I put in the work and had some farm raised bull stags that were terrors . I hand worked them and and followed my orders in the keep to a T ... 6 out of 7 ran slayed the other bird and kept going ..

    Larry Carter won the Hawaiin at Texoma in 97' and 99' ... he crossed one of those cocks that won in both over the sisters to the Golden Greys that won just as much ... I handled a show of them and they get smeared every time they called us up ... it was brutal .

    The first batch of Morgans I raised ran loose for 6 months longer than game chickens should and couldn't whip their momma sparring ... I won 3 derbies against cocks at Kellyville with them and a few more local .. anyone that saw them runnlng loose with cock's spurs and wallowing each other like donkey would have thought the same thing .. so , losers can win and winners can lose .. that's why we go ahead and tie the steel on even though we " know' what's gonna happen.

    I could go on and on with the times I've thought I culled the sorry ones , had them sharp and the birds went out and acted the part but were just not worth a crap and nobody in my circles was smart enough to know it ... and if the Lord is willing and the creeks don't rise ... I'll live long enough to enjoy getting humbled again .

  34. Likes RLaurent14, Nauvoo, LaBlue liked this post
  35. #24
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Where my hat is
    Posts
    4,888
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Selecting the "best" is subjective, meaning, one mans gold is another mans copper. I've met very few men who can select from ANOTHER MANS YARD and be successful at a HIGH percentage in ELITE competition.
    For most of us average guys the only way we get good at selecting IS BY STICKING WITH THE SAME FOWL. When you've had the same fowl for 10-20 years you've learned a thing or two about them. "Selecting" them is LESS OF A GAMBLE and more of an accumulation of PROVEN EXPERIENCE.
    Most of us are stuck "chasing our tail" in this game. The only way to get good at this game is to find a family that works above average for you and improve them gradually. Problem is most of us are mesmerized by a "shiny new rooster".
    ALL THAT GLITTER AINT GOLD. 95% of us would be better off buying battle cross trios. No one even talks about those no more.

  36. Likes Nauvoo, Quapaw Kid liked this post
  37. #25
    Senior Member BamaOkie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Twilight Zone
    Posts
    5,726
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Feeders do Not select trash. Most are fed the cream of the crop by whom ever they decide to feed for.

  38. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    277
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    The one common thing that the consistent winning feeders say I show good when I get good chickens to feed.

  39. Likes gaff liked this post
  40. #27
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2016
    Location
    Choctaw Oklahom
    Posts
    131
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    I believe you got to have good cutting roosters first then must be a good feeder. Got to have both the I lot of guys mess roosters up.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

  41. #28
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,763
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Selecting the "best" is subjective, meaning, one mans gold is another mans copper. I've met very few men who can select from ANOTHER MANS YARD and be successful at a HIGH percentage in ELITE competition.
    For most of us average guys the only way we get good at selecting IS BY STICKING WITH THE SAME FOWL. When you've had the same fowl for 10-20 years you've learned a thing or two about them. "Selecting" them is LESS OF A GAMBLE and more of an accumulation of PROVEN EXPERIENCE.
    Most of us are stuck "chasing our tail" in this game. The only way to get good at this game is to find a family that works above average for you and improve them gradually. Problem is most of us are mesmerized by a "shiny new rooster".
    ALL THAT GLITTER AINT GOLD. 95% of us would be better off buying battle cross trios. No one even talks about those no more.
    I couldn't agree more , I haven't bred anything pure since I got back in .. one thing I told my buddies is let's not make the same mistakes and waste time and pens on pure fowl before we find the right nick to justify it ... I was the only one listening during that meeting , lol ... let's give the breeders big or small we got fowl from enough credit that they can't keep em' going another year or two until we decide if we wanna go all in or not .

    The best way to find out which one is more important is this ... let's put some proven aces into the hands of average feeders and average fowl into the hands of great feeders and fight a main ... where is YOUR money at ? In the LK .. my money might be in the middle but in the heel , my money is 100% on the ace roosters .

  42. #29
    Senior Member INCUBUS06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,219
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    Plain & simple it's the cocks..... They also make good pitters, like I told dad once they're getting "select" fowl give them sub par cocks & than I'll believe you

    Sent from my LGMS210 using Tapatalk

  43. #30
    Senior Member jbmundy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    marikina
    Posts
    551
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: The bird or the feeder

    I don't think it would matter how good a rooster looks on paper unless somebody actually brought those qualities he's supposed to have out for his own good?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •