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Thread: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

  
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    Member HatchGrey57's Avatar
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    Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    I know this has been discussed a million times. In everyone’s experience how many times have you showed up to farm bought fowl and they turn out to be what you wanted? I feel like you could go to a show, watch a bird give a few hundred bucks and it be just as good as that $1500 trio.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Best fighting rooster I ever had was given to me by a man who just didn't want his chickens anymore. I named him Steelhead. He didn't look all that special but he was tougher than a bull nettle. I never put him in the pit but there were several game farms around me that were run by some very egotistical bloviating windbags who would tell me they had bloodlines they had bred up that won 80% of the time blah blah blah. I took Steelhead several times to have fellowship with their best roosters and I usually wound up getting told to not come back.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Nothing beats seeing them in action. Only thing left is can they reproduce the same or better.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    I feel there is a excellent chance as long as you go through a honest breeder and listen and do as he instructs. Just because a cock shows good does not mean he will throw good fowl.

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    Senior Member moseley's Avatar
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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Talked with fellow a while back that is really competitive. I asked him about a couple of his bloodlines. He did not have them anymore. I asked what in the world? He said always looking for something better. Get what makes you happy.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by HatchGrey57 View Post
    I know this has been discussed a million times. In everyone’s experience how many times have you showed up to farm bought fowl and they turn out to be what you wanted? I feel like you could go to a show, watch a bird give a few hundred bucks and it be just as good as that $1500 trio.
    Except for the fact your not getting a blood line. Your just getting a cock that won his battle. What your paying for when buying trios is a established blood line that has been perfected over time by someones hard work and money. What it is supposed to do is save the one buying all the guess work, hard work and money that goes into raising and breeding quality fowl. I know there are lots of peddlers and crooks out there. But there are also good honest breeders that don't advertise there fowl but sell by word of mouth. Those same breeders are very picky most times where there blood lines go. They care about there reputation and that of there hard work. I for one turn down most people looking to buy fowl. The few I do let fowl go to I have talked with for some time prior. I could make a lot of money just filling orders for the folks that want them. But im not into that myself.

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Hmmm, to me, competitive is 70% of what people have now.
    You need much more than just “competitive”, to be happy.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Not to hijack the thread because it is a good one . But here is another scenario I have first hand witnessed and not on my place but a prominent breeder in MS. Folks came to his yard to pick out a brood trio. They said they were looking for fowl for Mexican shows. He brought them over to the cock yard and said any of these cocks will work as brood fowl and we will match him with hens from this pen. Well they start going all over the yard and find another cock THEY LIKE. How much for this one they ask. He tells them. Then they go to one of the hen pens and grab a couple pullets. How much for these? He tells them. Away they go. Who knows how they will breed them or to what? If you go to a mans yard to get brood fowl and tell him what your looking for. Don't you think, That the best judge of his fowl is himself???? Ive seen it time and time again.
    Your paying folks good hard earned money for a trio of fowl. If you cant trust his word on his own fowl as to what suits you best. Why would you give him good money for them?
    Last edited by southernX; April 11th, 2018 at 11:28 PM.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by southernX View Post
    Not to hijack the thread because it is a good one . But here is another scenario I have first hand witnessed and not on my place but a prominent breeder in MS. Folks came to his yard to pick out a brood trio. They said they were looking for fowl for Mexican shows. He brought them over to the cock yard and said any of these cocks will work as brood fowl and we will match him with hens from this pen. Well they start going all over the yard and find another cock THEY LIKE. How much for this one they ask. He tells them. Then they go to one of the hen pens and grab a couple pullets. How much for these? He tells them. Away they go. Who knows how they will breed them or to what? If you go to a mans yard to get brood fowl and tell him what your looking for. Don't you think, That the best judge of his fowl is himself???? Ive seen it time and time again.
    Your paying folks good hard earned money for a trio of fowl. If you cant trust his word on his own fowl as to what suits you best. Why would you give him good money for them?
    Your story sounds like the mentality of a GAMBLER. 99% of gamblers I’ve met are natural born “losers”. They always have, and always will, find a way to loose. It’s in there DNA. AND OF COURSE THEYLL BLAME THE BREEDER for there loses. Gamblers NEVER blame the guy Looking back at them in the mirror.

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    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    IF we actually knew the number of guys that start out and buy/order fowl from what is on the market and never do win derbies or quit ... it would be discouraging . Same for if you followed up on the thousands of trios sold by all these big time breeders and small ones on facebook and such ... how many two years later are the parents to derby winning fowl ?

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    One more thought. If you go to a farm you should already know that they have what you want. Otherwise your just wasting your time and theirs.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Don’t let the naysayers discourage you in any way shape or form. SounthernX brings up some good points.
    When buying fowl from a reputable breeder your paying more for his time and Knowledge then you are paying for his fowl. Now this in no way will guarantee you will get fowl that can reproduce themselves so be ready for some heartache. But that goes for buying a cock straight out of the pit as well. An outstanding performer does not guarantee an outstanding producer. I’ve said it many times before when buying fowl you can’t only take the fowl into consideration you have to heavly weigh the breeder himself. Are his breeding methods in line with yours, if they are not then you might want to look elsewhere.
    For the ppl that believe you can’t be competitive with fowl from big breeders I think they’re full of themselves or oblivious to facts known to all.
    Sadly fighting fowl in the us is illegal but where it is legal 90% of the fowl being shown are fowl bought from the same breeders the naysayers are calling junk.
    When a breeder sales 300 400 500 cocks a year to one or two ppl that come back year after year they are doing something right. I’m sure not all 500 of those cocks are Aces but them must be better than average or they wouldn’t be coming back year after year

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    You've got a good chance to be competive if you're smart in the way you go about it. Lot of hard work and patience. Most folks think they're going to set the world on fire with the first batch of stags they raise up and that just isnt going to happen.

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    If your talking P.I. Or Mex. shows you have a good chance of getting good fowl but the longheel forget about it. One or two guys on here and none in the magazines. Most cater to the edged steel.

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    Senior Member MAD MAX's Avatar
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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    If your talking P.I. Or Mex. shows you have a good chance of getting good fowl but the longheel forget about it. One or two guys on here and none in the magazines. Most cater to the edged steel.
    Most do cater to the edged stuff but there does exist good Gaff fowl. I have got very fortunate in what I have got. You have to really look around but you can find what you want but you have to be patient and keep your ears open. My Dad used to say to ask one question to 50 people and then sit back and listen, You will learn much that way.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    There are thousands of cockers out there that bought Their fowl and never seen what was coming. They trusted the breeder to send them something good. I can't imagine a honest reputable breeder/cocker that wouldn't try to send good fowl. I am probably quite nieve. I've not ordered any fowl. Bill Bumgardner sold many fine fowl. Many more I just know of him personally.

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    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Big farms are almost a curse .. The law of averages really shows up . Imagine trying to pick a white leghorn out of a flock and it be special . Older , proven fowl with a few good seasons aren't an option either .. So it's really down to the strength of what an average trio can throw .. But they are pretty

    Smaller farms that breed older fowl , single mate and have some variation might not be better to mail order but in person you can actually narrow down the field and find something special

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by southernX View Post
    Not to hijack the thread because it is a good one . But here is another scenario I have first hand witnessed and not on my place but a prominent breeder in MS. Folks came to his yard to pick out a brood trio. They said they were looking for fowl for Mexican shows. He brought them over to the cock yard and said any of these cocks will work as brood fowl and we will match him with hens from this pen. Well they start going all over the yard and find another cock THEY LIKE. How much for this one they ask. He tells them. Then they go to one of the hen pens and grab a couple pullets. How much for these? He tells them. Away they go. Who knows how they will breed them or to what? If you go to a mans yard to get brood fowl and tell him what your looking for. Don't you think, That the best judge of his fowl is himself???? Ive seen it time and time again.
    Your paying folks good hard earned money for a trio of fowl. If you cant trust his word on his own fowl as to what suits you best. Why would you give him good money for them?
    Fine points you made there. I think I have a pretty good answer to that last part. I think its because lots of times when people go to a farm they pass up what the breeder is telling them because they are basing there selection on whats pleasing to the eye . Ive done it myself . Last farm I visted I knew the guy had good blood and knew what I wanted, he offered me a proven cock that had won several times, said he would make me a good one. Did I listen , hell no, I had to have that nice high stationed, big tailed unproven cock in my avatar . Luckily he ended up being a good choice but I should have listened to the old man . He didn't really wont to sell the one I did get at all and I ended up giving more just to get him so I do think the man thought he was a good one. But I think a lot of people go to a farm and forget what they need and end up getting what they want because it looks good. Its a bad habit and hard to break.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MAD MAX View Post
    Most do cater to the edged stuff but there does exist good Gaff fowl. I have got very fortunate in what I have got. You have to really look around but you can find what you want but you have to be patient and keep your ears open. My Dad used to say to ask one question to 50 people and then sit back and listen, You will learn much that way.
    I agree, they are still out there , hard part is finding them and getting the guy to turn loose of them when you do. I got out of it in early 90s.Then wanted fowl again around 2010. I started looking all over for American bred fowl ordered a few that ended up complete junk. Waisted about 5 yrs and finally ended up back at an old mans place whom I bought fowl as a teen and ended up with same fowl he had kept for 25 yrs. II also, was lucky to get them . Its best once you find good honest fowl to just keep them, theyre too hard to come by.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    What do I know? I have bought only a few to breed as brood, but when I was a youngster I bought hundreds of stags that were great enough birds. If I was just starting now, I think chances are still good to find good stuff. Once you find good ones, its not hard to know. Then I would work with them and give them the chance, cause it does take awhile breeding. I would say thow, even as a beginner you will know, you can just tell. A competitive bloodline is placing, I've always thought that way.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by don128 View Post
    What do I know? I have bought only a few to breed as brood, but when I was a youngster I bought hundreds of stags that were great enough birds. If I was just starting now, I think chances are still good to find good stuff. Once you find good ones, its not hard to know. Then I would work with them and give them the chance, cause it does take awhile breeding. I would say thow, even as a beginner you will know, you can just tell. A competitive bloodline is placing, I've always thought that way.
    I agree with one of your statements about getting good stuff. But the next statement about ppl just knowing now that I don’t agree with lol. I can Guarantee you there has been many a good family’s discarded only because the breeder had no idea what he/she had in there hands. I’m guilty of this myself lol.
    Last edited by El_Gavilancillo; April 13th, 2018 at 10:14 AM.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    I agree with that, but what I meant is if fowl are placing those heels, that is what you can see. Then its just style. I would breed these type fowl, then you can put your touch on them, but if they are not placing the heel, then they are not to spend time on. I just always thought it easy to tell. Maybe not everyone can but it is pretty obvious in this game. The very most important thing has to be known, or you cull a good family or feed bad fowl a couple three year..jmo
    Last edited by don128; April 13th, 2018 at 10:45 AM.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    I think ppl tend to think the breeder isn’t setting them up with the very best that he could be and that they believe they have a better chance if they don’t take what was chosen for them but something the breeder didn’t mention. If there’s an established relationship then it’s easier to trust the man. But if you’re just a guy who called n was told come on over then you feel the need to not take the first offer. It’s one thing to see and know a man has good fowl, but another to just walk up and he’s going to set you up on his path. Just another angle to think about.
    Last edited by Nauvoo; April 13th, 2018 at 12:23 PM.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    First time I bought fowl dung hill runners.
    The second time they were good.
    The third time they were really good but I think the guy sold me crossed fowl.
    The fourth time the Perry’s wer dung hill runners, the Murphy’s deep game.
    The last Murphy cock I bought from Tn. is really good.
    I think I’m 50/50

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonMurphy View Post
    First time I bought fowl dung hill runners.
    The second time they were good.
    The third time they were really good but I think the guy sold me crossed fowl.
    The fourth time the Perry’s wer dung hill runners, the Murphy’s deep game.
    The last Murphy cock I bought from Tn. is really good.
    I think I’m 50/50
    that sounds about right. This would probably apply to 99% of the ppl buying fowl. I think some forget that everyone big or small is in search of the same thing and that’s outstanding individuals to breed. It’s theres and our job to find them. And rest assured it will not be the very first time you try lol. I’ve yet to met anyone that has or had a line of fowl that produce
    Fowl that could reproduce themselves 100% of the time.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Your story sounds like the mentality of a GAMBLER. 99% of gamblers I’ve met are natural born “losers”. They always have, and always will, find a way to loose. It’s in there DNA. AND OF COURSE THEYLL BLAME THE BREEDER for there loses. Gamblers NEVER blame the guy Looking back at them in the mirror.
    Cockfighting is more a Sport and Business in the Philippines. It is very Expensive to be a hobby. To be successful in Cockfighting, U are taking a big Gamble! U need a lot of money to enter the big Derby’s in the Philippines (entry fee and minimum wage) and it’s is in the thousand’s. But what you have said that Gamblers are Natural Born Losers. Is very stupid of U. I’m not in Cockfighting to lose money, because if I were than am Stupid. I have been fighting roosters for nearly 40yrs and I am still finding ways to be better in Cockfighting. Now, when I and my friends (group) is entering a Derby or Hack fight, we do Bet a good amount of Money. Not because we are Gamblers, it is because we invested a lot of money and we are in it for the Business. And there are many Successful Gamblers in Cockfighting! Because we control our Destiny. Not like Gambling at a Casino were Luck is the major factor in Winning, But not in Cockfighting. Maybe U are very Jealous of the people who Compete at Big Derby’s or Hack Fight. I was Gambling when I was a little boy(card game or Cockfighting) and cockfighting is where I Won the Most, And that is What I became very good at from many years of learning. Cockfighting when entering in Big Derby’s from a
    financial view, it’s is very good investment for the amount of money use in such Derby(entry fee and minimum bet) were the total Entry’ is more than a hundred. That’s hundred times the amount invested, that can be Won be winning the Derby. So you think that Gamblers are Natural Born Losers! I would not be in Cockfighting.Now, I would have lost all my money when I started Cockfighting if I was a LOSER.
    So you are in Cockfighting for only a Hobby.
    U must have Lost all your Money fighting DUNGHIILS. POOR LOSER!
    Last edited by Dennis Acido; April 14th, 2018 at 01:23 AM.

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Acido View Post
    Cockfighting is more a Sport and Business in the Philippines. It is very Expensive to be a hobby. To be successful in Cockfighting, U are taking a big Gamble! U need a lot of money to enter the big Derby’s in the Philippines (entry fee and minimum wage) and it’s is in the thousand’s. But what you have said that Gamblers are Natural Born Losers. Is very stupid of U. I’m not in Cockfighting to lose money, because if I were than am Stupid. I have been fighting roosters for nearly 40yrs and I am still finding ways to be better in Cockfighting. Now, when I and my friends (group) is entering a Derby or Hack fight, we do Bet a good amount of Money. Not because we are Gamblers, it is because we invested a lot of money and we are in it for the Business. And there are many Successful Gamblers in Cockfighting! Because we control our Destiny. Not like Gambling at a Casino were Luck is the major factor in Winning, But not in Cockfighting. Maybe U are very Jealous of the people who Compete at Big Derby’s or Hack Fight. I was Gambling when I was a little boy(card game or Cockfighting) and cockfighting is where I Won the Most, And that is What I became very good at from many years of learning. Cockfighting when entering in Big Derby’s from a
    financial view, it’s is very good investment for the amount of money use in such Derby(entry fee and minimum bet) were the total Entry’ is more than a hundred. That’s hundred times the amount invested, that can be Won be winning the Derby. So you think that Gamblers are Natural Born Losers! I would not be in Cockfighting.Now,if I am Loser. I would have lost all my money when I started Cockfighting . And to be Successful, One must Take a Gamble!
    You ever notice it’s called “gambling” and NOT “winning”??
    Think about it.
    As far as being jealous? Actually I feel sorry for gamblers. It’s no way to live. Like a drug addict NEEDING HIS FIX. Or a 500 pound person NEEDING food.
    Theres more to living than just getting a high. There’s no such thing as a successful gambler but you keep convincing yourself of that. Don’t worry about what I think of gamblers. Think more about why my opinion BOTHERS YOU SO MUCH.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    You ever notice it’s called “gambling” and NOT “winning”??
    Think about it.
    As far as being jealous? Actually I feel sorry for gamblers. It’s no way to live. Like a drug addict NEEDING HIS FIX. Or a 500 pound person NEEDING food.
    Theres more to living than just getting a high. There’s no such thing as a successful gambler but you keep convincing yourself of that. Don’t worry about what I think of gamblers. Think more about why my opinion BOTHERS YOU SO MUCH.
    Haha.....
    There’s no such thing as a successful gambler, well what do u call the winners in World Series of Poker. You are someone who thinks like a DRUG ADDICK! I am a successful business operator and cockfighter. I have money to Gamble, Cockfighting IS NOT FREE.
    In the Philippines, there are many Big Gamblers in Cockfighting and are very Successful in Business. Manny Pacquiao is a Cockfighter and Bets Big on his Roosters. Is he a Loser an drug addick. You are Jealous.
    YOU ARE LIKE A MONGOOSE WHO IS A DRUG USER AND
    POOR LOSER!! MONGOOSE.
    Last edited by Dennis Acido; April 14th, 2018 at 04:53 AM.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    Life's a gamble. There is nothing promised to any of us. Every dissision we make is a gamble. We make the wrong one we lose we make the right one we win. Just putting up our Intry fee is a gamble. Most time someone else has it in their pocket on the way home.

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    Re: Chance of receiving a competitive bloodline when you buy?

    If you know what you want, and do some research you have a good chance of being satisfied. Reasonable expectations are required. Most don't know what they want and expect to beat the world just because they spent a little money. Much more to this sport than that.

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