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Thread: Busted!

  
  1. #1
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    Member jacosta's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    Ive understood the rule that if the bird turns thatís a point awarded. As in this case the guys bird ran off. Now is it that the other bird needed to peck as well?


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    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    A dead bird nor a runner shld ever be awarded the W. Since this is a case of both, short of checking the other one's vent, shld be a draw but given to the one standing. In Mex as soon as one's beak hits the ground its over but he had the down bird propped up well lol.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; December 5th, 2018 at 10:59 PM.

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    Re: Busted!

    The dead bird had poison on him. Just wanted to show everyone the effects of it, and Im glad the ref caught it.

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    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    Quote Originally Posted by brkilr View Post
    The dead bird had poison on him. Just wanted to show everyone the effects of it, and Im glad the ref caught it.
    I thought that may be it because yes thats how they act but
    I didnt see the owner, Orlando Eleness, of the bird that ran but won mention the word "venono" poison on any of his comments on the FB video post but that cld be also. Surely he wld have though if he suspected it unless I missed one if his comments though. I looked for it this morning because thats what I thought was possible at first view so wanted to see what they said. Owner claims it was a matter of handling that won the fight and what one handler didnt do and the other did do with the ref despite his bird showing tail (cold). Thats why the title reads that regardless of fault or ref error (shld have been a draw), his decision is irrevocable and final regardless and there is alot of discussion on it. Had it been due to poison, believe me they'd of flat out said that in the video title with no holding back and there wldnt be much debate going on about who won or why.
    Last edited by KevinG; December 6th, 2018 at 02:59 AM.

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    Senior Member rev-23's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    I'm confused, which bird won? To me that woulda been a draw. A dead bird cant win and a runner cant win. Flip the dead bird over check his vent if its moving he isn't dead yet and would b the winner in my opinion.

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    Senior Member Birdderfly's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    A dead bird nor a runner shld ever be awarded the W. Since this is a case of both, short of checking the other one's vent, shld be a draw but given to the one standing. In Mex as soon as one's beak hits the ground its over but he had the down bird propped up well lol.
    SF
    In the gaff if you have the count you dont have to do anything till the other bird breaks the court you can hack up and run long as you dont leave the pit or other bird breaks the count you a winner

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    Senior Member lucasemerson's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    In the spur if your rooster "runs" like in the video, not "walks off" the other rooster is supposed to be awarded the count, and technically can win...if the up rooster "walks off", what is supposed to happen I think it is after 3 counts of walking off the cock that walks off with the count, as long as the other rooster doesn't show fight back is supposed to have his heels cut off Immediately while in pit, and an un heeled fresh cock from outside the pit be brought in, and the 2 cocks b pitted "beak to beak" and if the walk away will show fight at the other cock, he's declared the winner...have u ever seen that done??? I haven't lol

    Lucas

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    Senior Member Birdderfly's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    Quote Originally Posted by lucasemerson View Post
    In the spur if your rooster "runs" like in the video, not "walks off" the other rooster is supposed to be awarded the count, and technically can win...if the up rooster "walks off", what is supposed to happen I think it is after 3 counts of walking off the cock that walks off with the count, as long as the other rooster doesn't show fight back is supposed to have his heels cut off Immediately while in pit, and an un heeled fresh cock from outside the pit be brought in, and the 2 cocks b pitted "beak to beak" and if the walk away will show fight at the other cock, he's declared the winner...have u ever seen that done??? I haven't lol

    Lucas
    Haven't seen other cocks brought in .but most of the time if the rooster with the count dont leave the pit the count goes on unless other cock shows fight and breaks the count.if the rooster with count leaves the pit then he loses the count and if neither rooster shows fight ref gets the count and then it's a draw

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    Re: Busted!

    That was a sk fight. The running cock would clearly fight the live cock. The dead cock had poison on him I'm sure. Also he was dead. If it was a gaff fight and no poison was deemed to be used both cocks would probably get a loss as a dead cock nor a runner get a win and a draw is half a win. Corse I wasn't there. Lol

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    Senior Member lucasemerson's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    That was a sk fight. The running cock would clearly fight the live cock. The dead cock had poison on him I'm sure. Also he was dead. If it was a gaff fight and no poison was deemed to be used both cocks would probably get a loss as a dead cock nor a runner get a win and a draw is half a win. Corse I wasn't there. Lol
    U r right it's a draw in my first scenario if one is dead and one's a runner...in the walk away scenario I was correct...only reason I know that is I got fkd by that deal one time when I was matched into pit owner in a stag Derby... imagine that lol

    Lucas

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    Senior Member Pinolim's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    HAHAHA!!! that is funny!!! just like in our folklore belief here in the island , that grey is afraid of a corpse!!!! it may haunt him in his sleep........that is a draw in our islands in LK.......

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    Senior Member southernX's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    Im not so sure the grey cock was dead. Might have been close. But not yet as when he picks him up after the fight his head stays up. Doesn't flop down like a dead cock.

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    Re: Busted!

    The way it was explained to me was a runner can't win and the dead one can't win. DRAW

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    Re: Busted!

    I don't understand those comments about it so, was one declared a winner? Don't know either the rules being applied but, with the grey turning to run away and the other bird's head dropping with his beak hitting the ground when pitted, I would say that it should be a draw. I'm also wondering why the handler of the grey(runner) cock left the knife scabbard on. Did he know that his Grey cock won't hit anyway?

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    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    Filamex, he said he left it on because he didnt have to hit the dead bird, that his break with the dummy bird bird as requested, which you will see him refer to it in his comments as "la mona", is all that was needed for him to show. I dont know, but he won lol. I hear you, if beak hits ground its over if it happens within the count and if there is a runner then its a stalemate to me. Its crazy, which is why there are so many comments. I dont think poison was involved accdg to the comments, respectively. At such a caliber of derby, no one would dare. The pit wld have been stormed if that was even a mere speculation in the fight and someone's A wld have been "handled" before even leaving the pit, it isnt the U.S. You dont mess around over there, Mexican nationals included.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; December 7th, 2018 at 03:41 AM.

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  27. #17
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    Re: Busted!

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    That was a sk fight. The running cock would clearly fight the live cock. The dead cock had poison on him I'm sure. Also he was dead. If it was a gaff fight and no poison was deemed to be used both cocks would probably get a loss as a dead cock nor a runner get a win and a draw is half a win. Corse I wasn't there. Lol
    What do you mean by he had poison on him? like they poisoned him?

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    Re: Busted!

    Quote Originally Posted by lucasemerson View Post
    In the spur if your rooster "runs" like in the video, not "walks off" the other rooster is supposed to be awarded the count, and technically can win...if the up rooster "walks off", what is supposed to happen I think it is after 3 counts of walking off the cock that walks off with the count, as long as the other rooster doesn't show fight back is supposed to have his heels cut off Immediately while in pit, and an un heeled fresh cock from outside the pit be brought in, and the 2 cocks b pitted "beak to beak" and if the walk away will show fight at the other cock, he's declared the winner...have u ever seen that done??? I haven't lol

    Lucas
    No I have not. In our area if he runs three times he loses. I was just thinking reading this post. There is no HONOR left in men. I would rather loose with a Game Cock in hand.

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  30. #19
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    Re: Busted!

    They should seriously think of making real good SK’s that don’t need to be changed during battle, and consider the Filipino LK rule and way of officiating. Controversial decisions like this one would be avoided.

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  32. #20
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    Re: Busted!

    Fastest way I know of to stop the using of poison on the feathers and the knife is for the ref to use two sponges (one for each bird) and wipe each birds hackle and saddle feathers and then the knife and finally take that sponge and squeeze a drop out of the sponge and put down the throat of that bird- then do same to other bird with a new or different sponge. If you do not do the above- Another good one is before you set them down each handler takes his thumb and forefinger and wipes the blade and then touches his tongue so that his opponent sees this and acknowledges. its funny to watch the cheater and very embarrassing it usually stops the fowl-play.

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    Senior Member Chocolategrey's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    This is just my Opinion but I know in Mex rules when a roosters beak touches the dirt he loses. In the Video when the rooster ran I don't think he should have Won even though the other Rooster was pretty much dead. Maybe a Draw at best. But I know different places also have house rules which can really change things. The dying bird took his death with honor. And with that comes a great deal of respect for the bird that lost he gave his all. It's what I expect of my bird's.

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  36. #22
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    Quote Originally Posted by dragpit View Post
    Fastest way I know of to stop the using of poison on the feathers and the knife is for the ref to use two sponges (one for each bird) and wipe each birds hackle and saddle feathers and then the knife and finally take that sponge and squeeze a drop out of the sponge and put down the throat of that bird- then do same to other bird with a new or different sponge. If you do not do the above- Another good one is before you set them down each handler takes his thumb and forefinger and wipes the blade and then touches his tongue so that his opponent sees this and acknowledges. its funny to watch the cheater and very embarrassing it usually stops the fowl-play.

    Yes, that is very true. The beginning is not available but the sponge and water in throat is pretty common practice in MX nowadays with each having their own sponge though as you pointed out. At that derby, Id bet that it was used as well. The men there are well aware of poison and they all look for it so to appease, they have to do something to prove it doesn't exist before it begins.

    SF

  37. #23
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Busted!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chocolategrey View Post
    This is just my Opinion but I know in Mex rules when a roosters beak touches the dirt he loses. In the Video when the rooster ran I don't think he should have Won even though the other Rooster was pretty much dead. Maybe a Draw at best. But I know different places also have house rules which can really change things. The dying bird took his death with honor. And with that comes a great deal of respect for the bird that lost he gave his all. It's what I expect of my bird's.
    I agree, death before dishonor. Good point.
    SF

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