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Thread: Defenition off pure

  
  1. #31
    Senior Member White thai's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Pure 100% . When i go to a restaurant and i order a argentina steak from the menu list and they bring me a steak from a Thai cow than im be angry. They have to give you what they prommist.

  2. #32
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by lino zuniga View Post
    pure is a term used when you've achieved uniformity on several levels.

    Station
    color
    performance
    attitude

    and whatever else people breed for.

    Uniformity
    i would like to add when you have the birds you want ( or mix ), you will now breed using the " close family " method using no outside blood until you have the overall "uniformity " you want . You can now call them whatever you want.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Yes you can call them whatever you want as long as you're not saying they're something they're not.

    For example

    In my part of the world Peruvian grades are what's winning.

    Some have a mix they like...made a line out of it...and now calling them Peruvian. And selling them this way.

    That is just wrong.



    Quote Originally Posted by bootlegger View Post
    i would like to add when you have the birds you want ( or mix ), you will now breed using the " close family " method using no outside blood until you have the overall "uniformity " you want . You can now call them whatever you want.

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  5. #34
    Senior Member grey/dom's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    The buyers who are looking for pure. That is the wrong ones.
    No breeders selling pure coz that is not their bred.

    They bred as their own. They just use a base blood.

    Example. Mclean hatch. That is the base blood of our hactch
    but not pure mclean hatch. Coz Mclean was already gone so many moons ago and not his breeding anymore but we use this blood for the base blood of our own version of hatch.

    There is no such thing as pure as gamefowls goes.
    Maybe table fowls are still pure leghorns and other breeds.

    Lablue can sell his mugs as lablue mugs.
    Mark Marsh can still sell his butcher as Marsh butcher.
    And Al Sanchez can sell his Al Sanchez PR fowl. Coz the base blood is PR. Just put Al Sanchez version of it

    and we can sell ours as GD filipino fowl. Lol

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  7. #35
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    It's a good point but. You do understand what I am saying right.


    About the Peruvian fowl.


    They're a specific type of large fowl. They are the largest knife birds in the sport


    Quote Originally Posted by grey/dom View Post
    The buyers who are looking for pure. That is the wrong ones.
    No breeders selling pure coz that is not their bred.

    They bred as their own. They just use a base blood.

    Example. Mclean hatch. That is the base blood of our hactch
    but not pure mclean hatch. Coz Mclean was already gone so many moons ago and not his breeding anymore but we use this blood for the base blood of our own version of hatch.

    There is no such thing as pure as gamefowls goes.
    Maybe table fowls are still pure leghorns and other breeds.

    Lablue can sell his mugs as lablue mugs.
    Mark Marsh can still sell his butcher as Marsh butcher.
    And Al Sanchez can sell his Al Sanchez PR fowl. Coz the base blood is PR. Just put Al Sanchez version of it

    and we can sell ours as GD filipino fowl. Lol

  8. #36
    Senior Member grey/dom's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    It's a good point but. You do understand what I am saying right.


    About the Peruvian fowl.


    They're a specific type of large fowl. They are the largest knife birds in the sport
    Oh sorry. I was not posting or qouting about ur post. I was qouting about the topic.

    But peruvians are in PI also. It sells like graded coz they are too big for PI derbies.

    And there are lots of them now in PI. But again sells as peruvian grades. Some sells pure as they say.

  9. #37
    Senior Member White thai's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    I buy gasolin they have 91 and 95 for my bike i need 91 that's a bit more expensive they sell IT in bottles. I pay for 91 but they give me 95. They screwed me , i want other gasolin but they dont give, i.m angry. Pure gamefowl be more expensive Then mixed fowl.
    Last edited by White thai; January 13th, 2019 at 07:05 AM.

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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Years ago Desert Fox sent me some great looking roosters. When my friend mike bought a pair from Desert Fox, and mate them together. Some of the stag and pullets came out with a toppie head gear. Mike tested the brothers and went 5 for 5. Since the line he got from Desert Fox should not had a toppie look, he called James up. Asking about the breeding and the toppee blood, James ask did they win. Mike says yes and James says ok whats the problem.

    Desert fox was one of the best breeders and he had no problem making improvements as he seen fit. A pure Desert Fox anything was really good, if not great.

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  12. #39
    Senior Member grey/dom's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by White thai View Post
    I buy gasolin they have 91 and 95 for my bike i need 91 that's a bit more expensive they sell IT in bottles. I pay for 91 but they give me 95. They screwed me , i want other gasolin but they dont give, i.m angry. Pure gamefowl be more expensive Then mixed fowl.
    again. Pure as breeders pure. Like 3/4 or 7/8. But in breeders breeding program.

    We sell 50/50 or i/2. It is cheap. And we call it battlefowl.

    When buyers buy and tell us to breed them or buying broodfowls and pairs or trio.
    That is what we give 3/4 or 7/8. Because inbreeding or line breeding in our experience have different looks than battlefowls. And battlefowls we sell only males. No pullets or hens.

    But if you buy for battle and want pure. We can not served you.

    But others maybe as long as they have sales.

    So some are not trustworthy. But it is a big difference if you want pure of this and that coz that bloodline was made so many years ago. It cannot be replicated.

    Law grey now is different from when it is in Law greys yard.

    Madigin claret now is different from madigins
    yard so many years ago.

    That is why buyers and sellers should be clear enough in their transactions.

    One chicken will ruined ur 20-30 years of breeding?

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  14. #40
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by White thai View Post
    When i say i.m pure Thai. That means me mother and father be 100%thai. Otherwise i.m not pure 100%
    Get a DNA test. You’ll be shocked what “Pure” Thai really means.

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  16. #41
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    There is no such thing as pure genetically speaking. Their is such thing as “inbred” for SPECIFIC traits.

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    Senior Member Sig1911's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    There is no such thing as pure genetically speaking. Their is such thing as “inbred” for SPECIFIC traits.
    Always like your concepts.I'm on the same page.

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  20. #43
    Senior Member White thai's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Get a DNA test. You’ll be shocked what “Pure” Thai really means.
    Probely 99% aseel. With jungle fowl blood

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  22. #44
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    There is no such thing as pure genetically speaking. Their is such thing as “inbred” for SPECIFIC traits.
    LOL....and that my friend "is" the definition of "pure"..................

    Once a strain/animal etc has been bred together long enough that no matter what is bred together within that family produces the same in looks attitude & behaviour, It is "pure"........Bred "purely" to produce the same.............

    The definition of a purebred is a human or animal with unmixed breeding over many generations.

    Of or relating to an animal having both parents of the same breed or variety.

    belonging to a recognized breed with characters maintained through generations of unmixed descent

    a purebred plant or animal

    a pure strain obtained through many generations of controlled breeding for desirable traits

    of or pertaining to an individual whose ancestors derive over many generations from a recognized breed.

    denoting a purestrain obtained through many generations of controlled breeding for desirabletraits


    Some of you should go back to school & educate your selves before telling people stories....................



    Last edited by Crazy Eyes; January 13th, 2019 at 07:42 PM.

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  24. #45
    Senior Member White thai's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Eyes View Post
    LOL....and that my friend "is" the definition of "pure"..................

    Once a strain/animal etc has been bred together long enough that no matter what is bred together within that family produces the same in looks attitude & behaviour, It is "pure"........Bred "purely" to produce the same.............

    The definition of a purebred is a human or animal with unmixed breeding over many generations.

    Of or relating to an animal having both parents of the same breed or variety.

    belonging to a recognized breed with characters maintained through generations of unmixed descent

    a purebred plant or animal

    a pure strain obtained through many generations of controlled breeding for desirable traits

    of or pertaining to an individual whose ancestors derive over many generations from a recognized breed.

    denoting a purestrain obtained through many generations of controlled breeding for desirabletraits


    Some of you should go back to school & educate your selves before telling people stories....................



    Nope but you make your point. Aseel birds are also known for their intelligent defensive and tactical thinking to keep power for long time in endurance fight. "Aseel" is an Arabic word meaning "pure" or "thoroughbred". The Aseel breed is available in coastal areas of Andhra Pradesh.

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  26. #46
    Senior Member cutcutcut's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Get a DNA test. You’ll be shocked what “Pure” Thai really means.
    White thai, we'll be waiting for your DNA test results. Maybe you're pure, but I think you'll find out that you are a cross, and possibly even a through-back, wouldn't that be something.
    Just messing with you white thai, have a good day.

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  28. #47
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    Yes you can call them whatever you want as long as you're not saying they're something they're not.

    For example

    In my part of the world Peruvian grades are what's winning.

    Some have a mix they like...made a line out of it...and now calling them Peruvian. And selling them this way.

    That is just wrong.
    Hey Lino, if it’s not a secret, can you tell me how much(%) Peruvian blood are in those winning grades? And what would be their average weight as cocks? Thanks

  29. #48
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by White thai View Post
    When i say i.m pure Thai. That means me mother and father be 100%thai. Otherwise i.m not pure 100%
    Yeah, that’s right WT. Just like gamefowls are Pure Chickens. Roosters(fathers) are chickens and motherhens are 100% chickens thus, their offsprings are pure 100%chickens, right?

  30. #49
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Just like your typical grades.

    Down to a 1/4 or an 1/8. Depending on your fowl and the size they get.

    They always come 5lb to 5.8lb

    The ones I have personally heeled and handled are crossed on Perry hatch. They did great.

    I saw some crossed on Mug. They were very good but didn't see them show only spar.

    It's my first year with them.

    I'm gonna cross them to my Thai.

    They get used in oriental fowl too. As grades.

    We breed them down to a 1/4 or a 1/8 too because they lack stamina compared to naked heel fowl. But they will add power to anything


    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    Hey Lino, if it’s not a secret, can you tell me how much(%) Peruvian blood are in those winning grades? And what would be their average weight as cocks? Thanks
    Last edited by Lino Zuniga; January 14th, 2019 at 01:38 AM.

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  32. #50
    Moderator CIGAR's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by White thai View Post
    understand what bushwick and all are both trying to say. There are certain breeders in P.R. that have been breeding for years that refuse to KNOWINGLY infuse oriental or american game in there blood. I know this bcus I talk and shop from them for all my broodstock. Green or black legs are not normal spanish traits, they are usually white and yellow legs. If a green legged rooster is norn on P.R. is he Puerto Rican? He is by birthplace but obviously has some Hatch blood in him so technically he is not a Spanish fowl he is american/spanish or a grade
    what does this have to do with your topic????? last warning

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  34. #51
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Eyes View Post
    LOL....and that my friend "is" the definition of "pure"..................

    Once a strain/animal etc has been bred together long enough that no matter what is bred together within that family produces the same in looks attitude & behaviour, It is "pure"........Bred "purely" to produce the same.............

    The definition of a purebred is a human or animal with unmixed breeding over many generations.

    Of or relating to an animal having both parents of the same breed or variety.

    belonging to a recognized breed with characters maintained through generations of unmixed descent

    a purebred plant or animal

    a pure strain obtained through many generations of controlled breeding for desirable traits

    of or pertaining to an individual whose ancestors derive over many generations from a recognized breed.

    denoting a purestrain obtained through many generations of controlled breeding for desirabletraits


    Some of you should go back to school & educate your selves before telling people stories....................



    Your over thinking this. There’s no such thing as pure and if you did could get to that point. It starts to fall apart. Look at Tasmanian devils of Tasmania. There closed off genetically speaking. Meaning their TOO PURE. For. Those who don’t understand, when you have no more VARIATION in a pure strain it won’t produce and becomes extinct.

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    Re: Defenition off pure

    To me pure would mean the offspring will be just like the parents every time.

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  37. #53
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    To me pure would mean the offspring will be just like the parents every time.
    Your birds are about as “pure” as a rainbow LOL. All that matters is that there pure for winning. I believe yours are very prepotent, which compensates for needing
    “pure”.
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; January 14th, 2019 at 11:52 AM.

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  39. #54
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Your over thinking this. There’s no such thing as pure and if you did could get to that point. It starts to fall apart. Look at Tasmanian devils of Tasmania. There closed off genetically speaking. Meaning their TOO PURE. For. Those who don’t understand, when you have no more VARIATION in a pure strain it won’t produce and becomes extinct.
    So "you do admit there is such thing as pure" right there in your quote???????????....."TOO PURE"............your words yet you will still try to tell us there is no such thing..........
    The Tasmanian Devil is as it has been for years,years.....it is not becoming extinct due to being tooo pure. the only problem it has is introduced disease ( a cancer).....
    You just also stated having no variation in "PURE" stock it will become extinct, yet you are still stating there is no such thing as "pure"......which is it?
    variation will always appear in a pure strain, nature takes care of that.
    I understand that people have been crossing animals/chickens since the dawn of time, but to deny purity is naive...........

    I respect your opinion mongoose, any time........

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  41. #55
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Eyes View Post
    So "you do admit there is such thing as pure" right there in your quote???????????....."TOO PURE"............your words yet you will still try to tell us there is no such thing..........
    The Tasmanian Devil is as it has been for years,years.....it is not becoming extinct due to being tooo pure. the only problem it has is introduced disease ( a cancer).....
    You just also stated having no variation in "PURE" stock it will become extinct, yet you are still stating there is no such thing as "pure"......which is it?
    variation will always appear in a pure strain, nature takes care of that.
    I understand that people have been crossing animals/chickens since the dawn of time, but to deny purity is naive...........

    I respect your opinion mongoose, any time........
    Oh my god. Read, read, read. I’m not here to educate no one. I find that most people argue from a “non education” point of view.
    The “cancer” is a genetic weakness” related to a “closed off” genetic gene pool.
    “Pure” is an idiot word. I’ve used it myself many times and take responsibility for my stupidity.
    Fact is there is INBRED and non inbred.
    Theres this little tool called “Google”. That is full of scientific information. I’m tired of idiots who are too lazy to read.
    Last edited by MONGOOSE; January 14th, 2019 at 11:41 AM.

  42. #56
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    It goes back to performances breeding and line breeding and inbreeding.

    Spanish fowl are performances bred fowl.

    The only thing they have consistently is gameness.

    I believe winning is in the year round care and a good keep. Other things are involved depending on your type of show.

    Breeding winners will take you pretty far if your hen selection is on piont.

    I believe in getting consistancy in certain things I have always found my multiple time winner's have had.

    Winning happens that way more consistently for me breeding for cool calm collected single stroke fowl.

    Others like a shotgun type of bird.

    They both can win.

    Depending on many variables.


    So breeding winners will take you far if you're also selecting for other traits.

    attitude and behavior is the most important for me. If they know what's happening they'll know what to do.

    If they're just mad...or just panicked...they'll win too...but not my type of bird.

    As they say


    Winning is winning
    Last edited by Lino Zuniga; January 14th, 2019 at 11:55 AM.

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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Oh my god. Read, read, read. I’m not here to educate no one. I find that most people argue from a “non education” point of view.
    The “cancer” is a genetic weakness” related to a “closed off” genetic gene pool.
    “Pure” is an idiot word. I’ve used it myself many times and take responsibility for my stupidity.
    Fact is there is INBRED and non inbred.
    Theres this little tool called “Google”. That is full of scientific information. I’m tired of idiots who are too lazy to read.
    LOL..................., My friends wife is a geneticist, she's the one 30 stories under ground designing those little germs that give you a cold so they can study you and your doctors can take stats on it, to see how it affected you......... and i have a female friend that has been working with the cancer problem in the Tas.Devil for years. That problem was not caused by being tooo pure.....but it sure has been passed through dna from generations of affected animals, this is why now they have a breeding program introducing other family members from other areas that don't have the cancer, yet they are all relaited & pure.......
    "google"is/can be a good tool, but there is also alot of mis information.........


    You can call me stupid if you like mate, Your the one that said "there is no such thing as "pure" then go onto explain there is "TOO PURE" means nothing really.........Have a nice day
    Last edited by Crazy Eyes; January 14th, 2019 at 12:20 PM.

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    Re: Defenition off pure

    We go from THIA COWs to who knows what on this thread. White Thai, forget the Argentina steak. Go for the Mongolian beef.

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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Quote Originally Posted by bazsdmeg2u View Post
    We go from THIA COWs to who knows what on this thread. White Thai, forget the Argentina steak. Go for the Mongolian beef.
    The thread was Defenition off pure

    Its been answered, we are all just trying to put our point across now

  48. #60
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Defenition off pure

    Straight bred would be a better word but the word PURE has been adopted by the old timers and used over decades so why change .Pure to me means a family that's been straight bred for generations without any outside blood added.
    By making as many Sub families as possible you can keep getting closer and closer to purity without as many bad traits or genetics being passed on .But eventually they'll start turning up more and more some families sooner than others. But if enough sub families have been made along with excellent selection you can go for a long long time maybe a lifetime and more. I don't think PURE is a bad word if you understand what youre getting which is straight bred fowl . I use the word pure all the time but what I mean is straight bred . I use the term FULL If I have a family that are suppose to be of the same lines but aren't straight bred.

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