Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Little Spurred Hen

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Little Spurred Hen

    I raise some mini fowl, but have never had a mini hen come spurred. I have tried crossing to some standard size spurred hens and breeding back down, but always lose the spurs. A friend suggested I search for a little Spanish hen or something along those lines that is spurred. If this post is out of place, moderators, please remove it and I apologize, but if anyone could point me in the right direction for finding such a hen, I would sure appreciate it! Just not having much luck!

  2. #2
    Senior Member Nauvoo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Location
    AL uhh BAM uhh
    Posts
    2,350

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Will breeding back to the rooster side heavy not potentially produce spurred hens?

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Quote Originally Posted by Nauvoo View Post
    Will breeding back to the rooster side heavy not potentially produce spurred hens?
    I have tried that too. My way of thinking, may be wrong, but if I can see the spurs on a little hen, I have a better shot. And, starting with something smaller will reduce the back crossing to get the size down. Spurs may not mean anything, but I like the looks of them.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    837

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Quote Originally Posted by jsl View Post
    I have tried that too. My way of thinking, may be wrong, but if I can see the spurs on a little hen, I have a better shot. And, starting with something smaller will reduce the back crossing to get the size down. Spurs may not mean anything, but I like the looks of them.
    Breed back to the hen side ( with spurs) then breed down again. Then inbreed on the offspring. The gene will be there, inbreeding will bring it out eventually. Sometimes they don't start getting spurs till their 2nd year or so.
    I used to breed a few mini's so i know. Some lines just won't produce a spurred standard size or mini. I like a spurred hen but they are not a necessity.

    Breed 2 different cocks to the spurred hen, then breed/cross the siblings..........
    Like anything, keep accurate records of your breedings so you have a map to look at. Once you get the size down again you look at your map and use the ones that have a large % of the original hen.
    Many ways to do it, just takes time like any other breeding scheme.

    Breeding back to the cock side heavily will not produce spurred hens, Only possibly if he is from a family with multiple spurred hens.
    Breeding your minis......always select the best smallest individuals. Using pullets & small eggs can help "but doesn't always"....Breeding very late in the season is always good for reducing size in fowl.
    Any family of fowl can be bred to produce whatever the breeder chooses without crossing to another type (breed) of fowl. Show people use short cuts like that, good breeders don't need to.....

    Although i would say a good Spanish type fowl added wouldn't heart non..
    Last edited by Crazy Eyes; February 12th, 2019 at 06:55 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    853

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    I found a fairly new paper in the last ten years, it started that hens with spurs, and even radicalized cases gyandromorph. The hens carry male chromosomes in certain body parts. I guess there's a scientific argument for hens with spurs now. If she carries more male DNA, and Chromosomes, it could lead to more purely male fowl. Hens with spurs in theory could throw gamer cocks than her spurless sisters.

    The article had nothing to do with gamefowl, merely chickens. It just stated at one point a hen with a spur or spurs, carried male chromosomes in her body, more so usually than her spurless sisters.

    It's just something to think on. That just says to me a hen having spurs is going to come from her mama, in your situation. You'll have to breed a spurred hen in and inbreeding a little here and there it'll pop out in your minis.
    Last edited by RedAngus; February 12th, 2019 at 06:52 AM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    837

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAngus View Post
    I found a fairly new paper in the last ten years, it started that hens with spurs, and even radicalized cases gyandromorph. The hens carry male chromosomes in certain body parts. I guess there's a scientific argument for hens with spurs now. If she carries more male DNA, and Chromosomes, it could lead to more purely male fowl. Hens with spurs in theory could throw gamer cocks than her spurless sisters.

    The article had nothing to do with gamefowl, merely chickens. It just stated at one point a hen with a spur or spurs, carried male chromosomes in her body, more so usually than her spurless sisters.

    It's just something to think on. That just says to me a hen having spurs is going to come from her mama, in your situation. You'll have to breed a spurred hen in and inbreeding a little here and there it'll pop out in your minis.
    You are correct my friend, It only comes from the hen. You can breed a cock bird in & in till he's dead & probably never see a spurred hen. Breeding down from hens with spurs and some inbreeding on that side "WILL"produce them. Some males may carry a gene if they are from a family that produce multiple hens with spurs but you will never know if its there or not, takes a lot of test breedings and ive never seen this proven.
    With the hen, you can see the gene expressed, because she is right in front of you..LOL.......
    I get mostly spurred hens in my family but they are tighter bred on the hen side that show the spurs.
    The other half of my family that i breed tighter on the cock side, although using spurred hens, i don't produce them.
    Last edited by Crazy Eyes; February 12th, 2019 at 07:08 AM.

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Eyes View Post
    Breed back to the hen side ( with spurs) then breed down again. Then inbreed on the offspring. The gene will be there, inbreeding will bring it out eventually. Sometimes they don't start getting spurs till their 2nd year or so.
    I used to breed a few mini's so i know. Some lines just won't produce a spurred standard size or mini. I like a spurred hen but they are not a necessity.

    Breed 2 different cocks to the spurred hen, then breed/cross the siblings..........
    Like anything, keep accurate records of your breedings so you have a map to look at. Once you get the size down again you look at your map and use the ones that have a large % of the original hen.
    Many ways to do it, just takes time like any other breeding scheme.

    Breeding back to the cock side heavily will not produce spurred hens, Only possibly if he is from a family with multiple spurred hens.
    Breeding your minis......always select the best smallest individuals. Using pullets & small eggs can help "but doesn't always"....Breeding very late in the season is always good for reducing size in fowl.
    Any family of fowl can be bred to produce whatever the breeder chooses without crossing to another type (breed) of fowl. Show people use short cuts like that, good breeders don't need to.....

    Although i would say a good Spanish type fowl added wouldn't heart non..
    Thank you for the explanation! I really like the mini's I have and am hesitant to breed too heavily our to a spurred hen side. I have outcrossed to spurred hens then bred back to the mini side, hoping to pick up some spurs, but to no avail. Your black hens sure are nice looking!

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAngus View Post
    I found a fairly new paper in the last ten years, it started that hens with spurs, and even radicalized cases gyandromorph. The hens carry male chromosomes in certain body parts. I guess there's a scientific argument for hens with spurs now. If she carries more male DNA, and Chromosomes, it could lead to more purely male fowl. Hens with spurs in theory could throw gamer cocks than her spurless sisters.

    The article had nothing to do with gamefowl, merely chickens. It just stated at one point a hen with a spur or spurs, carried male chromosomes in her body, more so usually than her spurless sisters.

    It's just something to think on. That just says to me a hen having spurs is going to come from her mama, in your situation. You'll have to breed a spurred hen in and inbreeding a little here and there it'll pop out in your minis.
    Thanks for sharing, that is interesting! Several years ago, I read, I think in Hutt's genetics book, about spurred white leghorns. I think they found about 5% of hens were spurred and with some selection could be increased. Spurred hens have always caught my eye. My grandfather had a nice hen with spurs that I really liked. When she died, he saved them for me. Still have them!

  9. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazy Eyes View Post
    Although i would say a good Spanish type fowl added wouldn't heart non..
    I think that is why my friend suggested it and to my understanding, they are a little smaller fowl to begin with.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    837

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Quote Originally Posted by jsl View Post
    Thank you for the explanation! I really like the mini's I have and am hesitant to breed too heavily our to a spurred hen side. I have outcrossed to spurred hens then bred back to the mini side, hoping to pick up some spurs, but to no avail. Your black hens sure are nice looking!
    If youve put it in somewhere, it should be floating around, it pop up just when you don;t expect it.
    Ive had some hens at a year & half , no spur. Then at 2 years ill go bugger me, she's growing spurs. Or ill make a breeding to non spur hen and half the daughters grow spurs. When i get tassel pullets, i know the spurs are there
    Non tassel pullets i never hold my hopes up for a spurred hen although ill get an odd one. Spurs came from my tassels in the first place, and they seem to come hand in hand now.

    Keep it up. youll get there.......

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    837

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Quote Originally Posted by jsl View Post
    I think that is why my friend suggested it and to my understanding, they are a little smaller fowl to begin with.
    Either way, they need to come from a family that produce multiple hens with spurs, not just a freak or two or youll be chasing your tail just as much.

  12. #12
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    837

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Just to add to this, And a question for you jsl.

    Are your fowl "True Mini's"....? in other words have they been bred down in size by "only" using standard size gamefowl.
    Many breeder of minis take a few short cuts by adding some type of bantam, and thats what they'll always be. You will probably never see a spurred hen in this case or i very much doubt it. You will also be lacking in so many other department also if thats whats been done.
    Make sure of what you have before you put to much into it. I made that mistake when i first got started, i was lied to, never again.

    creekside breeds some real nice mini's. haven't seen him here for a while but see if you can have a chat with him, he would be a lot closer to you than me.
    Last edited by Crazy Eyes; February 12th, 2019 at 07:39 AM.

  13. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    To my knowledge, these are minis and not bantam. At least I hope they are as I paid enough for them! The mini's I started with were dark but I like blues, so I began crossing them into a nice family of blues that had some spurred hens. My hope was that it would be easier to get the spurred hens, but I think I need some outside help at this point. I don't know creekside personally, but he does have some beautiful birds!

  14. #14
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Hope this link works...
    http://magaimg.net/img/754p.jpg

  15. #15
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen


  16. #16
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    837

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    bumping to get rid of the sh#t.......................................

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Just bringing this back up. Any help in finding a little spurred female would be greatly appreciated!

  18. #18
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Just bumping this back up as I am still searching for a nice little double spurred hen. PM if that is better. Thanks

  19. #19
    Senior Member Al Sanchez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,038

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    jsl: I don't breed Mini`s, but Years ago almost all my Puerto Rican Toppie hens came with spurs on both legs.. Some how I never really bred for that trait and seem to of lost it.. I don't really know anyone that breeds just for that trait.. I would think that just maybe someday a few of my hens might develop spurs again, But its not all that important to me or my breeding program. If I hear of any I will surely give you some contact info on the breeder...
    Quote Originally Posted by jsl View Post
    Just bumping this back up as I am still searching for a nice little double spurred hen. PM if that is better. Thanks

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Thanks Al! I realize it is not an important trait to select for. I just liked the look of my grandfather's spurred hens. Unfortunately it has been a real challenge to breed that characteristic into my mini's. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think some of the smaller Spanish or Puerto Rican fowl would be a good place to look for such a trait. Have a great day!

  21. #21
    Senior Member Al Sanchez's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    4,038

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Quote Originally Posted by jsl View Post
    Thanks Al! I realize it is not an important trait to select for. I just liked the look of my grandfather's spurred hens. Unfortunately it has been a real challenge to breed that characteristic into my mini's. Perhaps I am wrong, but I think some of the smaller Spanish or Puerto Rican fowl would be a good place to look for such a trait. Have a great day!
    You are correct on the Spanish type hens coming with spurs, but I have also seen American hens coming with spurs. The problem you face is that you need small hens so yes I think your best bet would be to find a breeder of minis or Spanish that carry that trait. Best of luck and like I said, if I hear of anyone I will give you a heads up. Have a great day my friend..

  22. #22
    Senior Member leonidas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Guanajuato
    Posts
    700

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    most of my hens won't really develop good spurs until they are older in the 3+ year age and not all of mine have them. sometimes they throw some of the best but sometimes they can be hard to breed i guess too much testosterone in them but i don't breed mini's so i don't know

  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    31

    Re: Little Spurred Hen

    Quote Originally Posted by leonidas View Post
    most of my hens won't really develop good spurs until they are older in the 3+ year age and not all of mine have them. sometimes they throw some of the best but sometimes they can be hard to breed i guess too much testosterone in them but i don't breed mini's so i don't know
    That is my understanding too, that spur development is influenced by testosterone. I read one study that looked at spurred hens and showed higher testosterone levels, but also mentioned they laid and hatched clutches of chicks. Maybe too much and it creates a problem?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •