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Thread: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

  
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    Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    This thread is just a general question. My girls father and brother were over yesterday. They asked if they could use my scale. They were picking so out for The Farmers Tournament and The Triple Crown. So my girls brother and I were laughing about the old man. Everything was a little heavy. So her brother has a White Hackle in his hand and says I need to check the books. I think this one was 4.12 last year. The cock in hand was 5.6 lol. So we kept busting on the old man. Anyways they picked out three and went home. Anyways her brother said to me you are right. Some chickens are lazy. I had just said this too him two days ago. I then said to him you know that 3/4 White Hackle one quarter Claret Hen your father gave I. He said yes. I bred her to a Murphy Cock. I had a cock in a 4x4 jump pen. I fed him a little more than every one else this winter. He was in jump pen this winter. I took him out a couple months ago and his breast was gone. Anyways I told him I put him in a rest stall for a month and gave him food in front of him 24 hours a day for a month. So her brother says a lot of the old timers say. Feed no pellets and all grains to add breast. I said right now Iím feeding three parts corn one part barley one part wheat two parts pellets in my dry mix. The other half is soaked oats.

    Anyways there are some men with wisdom on this site . Some men with knowledge the two are not the same. What do you all do to add breast? Again this is just something to talk about.

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    My experience is if you lost breast something went wrong with that bird. He got sick is my guess. My experience with them is “they will never be the same”, even if you could get the breast back but that usually doesn’t happen.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    I have to agree with mongoose on this one, once the breast is gone Its hard to get it back.... But I must say, there are some birds that just never have a big breast to begin with. I myself don't like fat roosters and my Postiza birds have never been known to have big breast like the American breeds.. Don't know why, its just the way its always been with my birds. I feed my birds just enough to keep them alive and healthy. Wish you the best with your quest to find a answer..

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Protein puts a breast on a bird period. That is, if you put him in a small pen and give him all of the laying pellets he can eat. If, you placed him in a rest stall for a month and he has no breast (just a blade ) he will never get it back . He has mareks, also called the stress disease.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonMurphy View Post
    This thread is just a general question. My girls father and brother were over yesterday. They asked if they could use my scale. They were picking so out for The Farmers Tournament and The Triple Crown. So my girls brother and I were laughing about the old man. Everything was a little heavy. So her brother has a White Hackle in his hand and says I need to check the books. I think this one was 4.12 last year. The cock in hand was 5.6 lol. So we kept busting on the old man. Anyways they picked out three and went home. Anyways her brother said to me you are right. Some chickens are lazy. I had just said this too him two days ago. I then said to him you know that 3/4 White Hackle one quarter Claret Hen your father gave I. He said yes. I bred her to a Murphy Cock. I had a cock in a 4x4 jump pen. I fed him a little more than every one else this winter. He was in jump pen this winter. I took him out a couple months ago and his breast was gone. Anyways I told him I put him in a rest stall for a month and gave him food in front of him 24 hours a day for a month. So her brother says a lot of the old timers say. Feed no pellets and all grains to add breast. I said right now Iím feeding three parts corn one part barley one part wheat two parts pellets in my dry mix. The other half is soaked oats.

    Anyways there are some men with wisdom on this site . Some men with knowledge the two are not the same. What do you all do to add breast? Again this is just something to talk about.
    I have had this happen a couple of times. I agree with mongoose it had been my experience that itís always something wrong with them. Even if itís nothing you can see or know. Maybe something with his guts or liver or something. But usually internally. But I would cull. I just canít see a jump pen taking the breast off unless he wasnít getting enough fat in his diet. If they canít burn fat. Then they will burn muscle. But if that was case you shouldíve had a few more that way. Cause I donít imagine heís the only one you had in jump pen. Iím not the greatest or have the most experienced but this is just my opinion. I might get hammered for it but thatís what I believe. I feed corn and 16% layer that says itís a complete feed and corn. Then I give a very small amount of vitamins every 2-3 weeks just to make me feel better. But the proof is in the pudding they have a small amount of fat. And are in good shape and hit they they could bust block. But good luck brother I hope he gets better.
    Last edited by Bama71; March 11th, 2019 at 08:09 AM.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    There are many ways to lose the breast. Prolonged periods of high protein feed can and will burn the breast right off them. Not enough feed for a cock/hen that is too active will accomplish the same results. There are many factors that can contribute to this outcome. I would say if your sure it’s one of the above go ahead and try to put the breast back on him. But if your not sure cull and move on, will be much cheaper in the long run.

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    Senior Member southernX's Avatar
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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    I would say he went down on you sometime over the winter to loose his breast. If it was extremely cold and he didnt get enough water they tend to not get what they need out of the feed. That could be the case even though you feed extra. Lack of water in the winter tends to make them loose flesh, I put water in front of them twice aday when it gets cold enough to freeze it. Ive seen it in yards around here where guys think the chickens can eat snow so they dont water. But Pellets are what puts the breast on a chicken. Grain will put fat in his ass.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    I'm trying to understand this post. A big breast is just a target. You head breast but it shouldn't be a big flat breast . If you scratch your fowl too much they will lose breast. But only scratching once a day works well.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Once the breast is gone it's not coming back. I have had this happen a few times and it usually happened when the cock was kept in a small coop for too long a period. If you have some in small coops I would suggest rotating them to larger pens. Having them able to fly up to a roost is a must, not simply hopping up to one.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Ive seen roosters lose breasts and Ive seen roosters never develop a good breast. Rawboned. If a good quality high protein feed ,fresh water wont do it not much else will. You might jump start it and put on some flesh with a prescription steroid and high protein but chances are he wont retain it. Possible but doubtful.
    My brother had a pure Red Quill once that he had shown 8x never going past 2 pittings. He was raw boned as they come but was born that way and never did develop a breast. Not many people here would have gave him a second thought about showing him little on breeding him. He wasn't fast or fancy but he planted both heels right where they lived every shot and in short order. He was the best rooster on his yard. But to a lot of people would have been culled before he ever got a chance to prove it. I don't like to feel them like that or especially see one drop off. It worries me a lot more when one had a breast and it drops off for no apparent reason though. I don't like those jump pens for long term use. Once he is in a new pen where he can fly again with proper protein and starts using those muscles you might get lucky.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Too much soaked oats and will pull the breasts off,,,,,add a bit of cracked peas soaked overnight and replace the lessened soaked oats with barley and you should gain it back,,,,,

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    I'm trying to understand this post. A big breast is just a target. You head breast but it shouldn't be a big flat breast . If you scratch your fowl too much they will lose breast. But only scratching once a day works well.
    I agree, heel birds don’t need them but in the mex. shows its insulation for vital organs.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    I'm trying to understand this post. A big breast is just a target. You head breast but it shouldn't be a big flat breast . If you scratch your fowl too much they will lose breast. But only scratching once a day works well.
    I agree, That's why I prefer long keel fowl, I like a good firm breast but not one that looks like a broasted chicken.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Quote Originally Posted by Goodolhatch View Post
    There are many ways to lose the breast. Prolonged periods of high protein feed can and will burn the breast right off them. Not enough feed for a cock/hen that is too active will accomplish the same results. There are many factors that can contribute to this outcome. I would say if your sure it’s one of the above go ahead and try to put the breast back on him. But if your not sure cull and move on, will be much cheaper in the long run.
    This was months ago. I agree with to much exercise on this. I never gave medicine. I took him out of jump pen. He feels great again. I have found that some birds are lazy. I’ve had cocks in these same pens never go down . Sitting right next to one that did. I have found that an active cock in one of these pens needs 6 ounces of food a day. I take them out of pen and they are at fight weight. I take a lazy cock out of pen on four ounces of feed and he is at fight weight.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    I'm trying to understand this post. A big breast is just a target. You head breast but it shouldn't be a big flat breast . If you scratch your fowl too much they will lose breast. But only scratching once a day works well.
    This is not about conditioning LaBlue. It is winter and I had him in a conditioning cage. To be honest this was just a random discussion about feed to put breast back on. This happened months ago. The cock is right where he should be again. I’m not asking anything about my specific rooster. He is fine now. I made the mistake of keeping him in a conditioning pen over the winter because all pens were full. This is just a random discussion about what you feed to add breast to a cock that went under. I thought I made that clear in original post. It is a discussion on feed

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Ok got ya. If I was simply trying to add some breast I'd give him all the bread and milk he'd eat every morning and leave 16 % pellets in front of him. Put him in a fly pen on 4-5 inches of fresh horse manure where he could fly 5-6 ft. If it's coming back you'd know quickly.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    Grains tend to make em leady , and all grains are actually seeds with protection to being eaten . Breast meat is protein , so the best source of easily digested protein and lysine is about the only thing that's gonna help besides time .

    You find studies on broilers and layers for every feed mix there is .. More peas , substituting corn for more wheat , flax ,etc ... Energy to Protein ratio is the main math you need to work out .

    They never do find any miracle feed , all the fad super foods like flax , quinoa ,etc have a down side . Gilliam had the best feeling yard of fowl I have ever felt ... You can find his mix on here
    Quapaw Kid, can you lead me to where i can find Gary Gilliam's feed mix? thanks yfis

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    If you lived anywhere close I would recommend my buddy's feed, its only 14% but it will put a good breast on anything. It's mostly grain with a couple different pellets, molasses, cheese byproduct. Corn, milo, wheat, oats, quinoa, sunflower seeds, alfalfa pellet, his personal breeder pellet.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    I got one Ill share from way back when legal . I like many others also went through an experimental phase early on, trying new things to see what I could ad to my keep to make the Ultimate Warrior lol. I had an Hatch Grey my brother had brought me from a show. Id been wanting some for a while and he said they were showing good but the guy had them starved down to nothing . Anyway he got one from the guy and brought him home to me. All his breast had been stripped away . He wasn't just slim he was outright poor. No wonder they ran out of steam and no power.
    After a couple weeks I put him up for 3 weeks and every other day I gave him an injection over the recommended dose of muscle in a bottle . Ever heard of a can of whoop ass well that was it lol . Long story short at the end of that 3 weeks he had went from no breast to a chest that would have made Schwarzenegger cry. It surpassed a flat breast and was a full two muscle belly rounded chest with a deep crevice in the middle. He was more like a bull than a rooster. I rested that rooster for 4 days to get him good an loose after all the work I had gave him. Only took him out of the box to stretch him and fly him a few times to loosen up.
    Matched him into a 4x winning black rooster so they said after it was over . We got ate alive in the air but on the ground the Grey was just as fast as ever, never slowed up, never came apart or lost power , even though the old black had busted him many times and could really dish it out. Pretty soon all that ground and pound and the power to keep coming paid off and we won that one. The Grey still felt like he had just came out of the box even though you could look and see he hadn't. A few weeks later he still had a huge chest but it had went down a little . He kept and above average chest after that but I don't really know how big it was naturally since we was starved down when I got him. I cut back to the normal dose after that . Just to expensive and overkill. I finally settled on a good natural keep up to the time I got out of it the first time. But man you talk about one Hoss of a rooster lol.

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    Senior Member Mossy Dell's Avatar
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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonMurphy View Post
    I said right now I’m feeding three parts corn one part barley one part wheat two parts pellets in my dry mix. The other half is soaked oats.
    BostonMurphy, you are one of the few, or maybe only, person who has mentioned feeding whole barley. How did you come to add it? What does barley give? I have read the kernel is very hard, so I guess it works their gizzard.

    Also, is your corn balancing or giving needed energy because half your daily feed is soaked oats? Without the oats, I'd say that might be a lot of corn.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    If he lost his breast to cocci he'll put some meat back on but not enough, I've fought some cocks like that, that were just flat aces, and had some that just died over what seemed to be nothing. If it's due to water, or being overworked cut back his protein to about 13- 14%. Give him some Apple cider vinegar in his water every other day, and an amino pack on the off days for the vinegar. It honestly doesn't matter if it's grains,crumbles or pellets as long as you're not overloading him with fiber, like soaked oats. I would probably go with pellets or crumbles with water mixed in to make a paste, and a little scratch mixed into it. If it was cocci a little yogurt will help him a little to build up the bacteria in his gut. I would put him on a chord, he might get fat in a 4x4 pen without him ever putting on a good breast. With you trying to put a breast on him, remember there will always be the chance he drops it during a keep.

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    Senior Member Mossy Dell's Avatar
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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Does anyone else feed some whole barley? What does it add? Like I said, it's a hard kernel under that husk. Could achieve gizzard work of milo maybe.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mossy Dell View Post
    BostonMurphy, you are one of the few, or maybe only, person who has mentioned feeding whole barley. How did you come to add it? What does barley give? I have read the kernel is very hard, so I guess it works their gizzard.

    Also, is your corn balancing or giving needed energy because half your daily feed is soaked oats? Without the oats, I'd say that might be a lot of corn.
    Mule Watt used to boil barley and give his cocks on keep. There was also a product called PEX he gave them that was a supplement to build the breast. Mule used to show at St Augustine and Orlando as well as mains with big time cockers such as Dudley Pearce.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Boston Murphy, the whitehackle you speak of could be my blood. I feed only pellets, my fowl have good breast. When I seen breast loss in mine it was usually from over feeding. Pellets are great, but if over fed they can cause an opposite effect. This is just my observation, if they sh$tting chocolate then breast is first to go. It might be something else. I would rotate often and keep feed at stable. Se if things change.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    I had some years ago lose breast. My deal was they were wormy & maybe sick too. Either way, what fixed mine was giving the good green worm pills, inject LA200 or tylan and a couple months on a cord. Most were usually better in not too long but it wasn’t overnight success for them to feel right in your hand

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    I only have 2 cocks, 5 stags trimmed and a few untrimmed up and coming mug crosses (thanks Del) and a couple out of the Morgan (thanks Don). Finished up 5 flypens and 5 10ft long x 5ft tall x 5ft wide run type pens. I rotated once a week and I feed weekends and my cousin feed during the week. Well the biggest problem with this is the run pens tends to take too much weight off. One of the wh stags got too light. In the fly pens he did just fine. I changed my feed too. I was feeding soaked oats in the am and conditioner (18%) with a slightly less part hen scratch. I cut the oats for a week and they laost too much mass/weight. Now I have big drumstick roosters with too slim a breast. Put the oats back in their diet and rotate every 3 days now. Will be checking them. If not a big improvement then I will add just the tip of the spoon with wheat germ flakes in a feed cup with straight conditioner twice a week. Nothing fills a bird out more than wheat germ that I know of. But you can overdo it and wind up with butterball type chickens. Oh yeah another problem is my cousin drinks too much and may miss feeding some. Training my wife until I hit the lotto and can stay with the birds all day and night.lol

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    When you get new birds an feed them ur way an it's not the same as the man you got them from. U have weight loss.to much protein samething.walk pen should only be used in the condition stage for the fact u use it to pull weigh off.remember anytime u change feed u give them what is diarrhea.exsample.u eat the same thing for a week. Then change it the next ur body will clean itself. The birds r no different. I can go on with this but im going to get to the point. When you are trying to add to the breast give them chicken bologna.either by itself or added to the wet feed.same time u want to make sure they have access to grass.all this is common sense if u think about it.

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    Member Hogwaller's Avatar
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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Quote Originally Posted by southernX View Post
    I would say he went down on you sometime over the winter to loose his breast. If it was extremely cold and he didnt get enough water they tend to not get what they need out of the feed. That could be the case even though you feed extra. Lack of water in the winter tends to make them loose flesh, I put water in front of them twice aday when it gets cold enough to freeze it. Ive seen it in yards around here where guys think the chickens can eat snow so they dont water. But Pellets are what puts the breast on a chicken. Grain will put fat in his ass.
    Good point. The birds cannot metabolize their feed unless they have moisture and will drop weight. My Wife ensures her Birds have water before them in all and any conditions. They can even freeze due to this inability to burn their calories which is their source of heat. A calorie is actually a unit of heat. I keep soaked grain on hand to ensure they have enough moisture to metabolize. I feed more soaked whole corn when it is freezing with adequate granite grit. I like to soak barley but care must be taken, as with any grain, it is not treated. I asked for feed barley and got some with a treatment code that said SC. I called the feed store and he said that meant South Carolina. That was not the case as I had called everyone from the grower, storage, bagger and wholesaler concerning the state of the barley. Turns out it was treated with a pesticide with a half life of 8 months. This bag was fresh and had full potentcy when I first purchased. The treatment code one needs look for is NONE. Much more can be said but I have already gotten off topic but it is all related.
    Last edited by Hogwaller; January 24th, 2020 at 09:55 PM.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Hogwaller, do you soak oats too or do you prefer barley for that? I'd gotten the impression it was a few guys in the north who fed some barley but here you are doing it down south.

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    Re: Putting Breast Back on Chickens

    Quote Originally Posted by Mossy Dell View Post
    Hogwaller, do you soak oats too or do you prefer barley for that? I'd gotten the impression it was a few guys in the north who fed some barley but here you are doing it down south.
    These are whole barley with the husk. I soak them just like oats and the fowl do very good on them. I soak wheat also as well as corn. I like to soak the grain to a point a milky juice comes out when squeezes. The corn should break easily when fully saturated by squeezing a thumbnail into the kernel. I like small kernel corn and one should be very selective with grains to prevent toxins. I also give very hard, dry grain such as flint corn and peas to work the gizzard. The protein percentage depends on the amino acid chain. 30 percent from a soy Product is different from a 50 percent protein from a meal worm or other insects. Crickets are 65 percent protein and I have seen Biddies and growing Fowl fill up on them with no ill effects. If a gamecock does not get enough protein his body will rob cells from the muscles first then the heart and other organs, but it must be the right kind of protein. I mix my own and it has these products as well as lay pellets, sunflower seed, Alfalfa pellets and a small amount calf manna and a 28/20 dog food. This is not a recommendation for anyone else. The only problem I had is my fowl held their feathers too long before moulting. One Sabong member sited they were fed too well in the hottest weather. I hope this not start a s h I t storm. LOL. The dog food has no grain products. I prefer barley. Mike Ratliff encouraged his students to use wheat.
    Last edited by Hogwaller; January 25th, 2020 at 03:27 AM.

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