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Thread: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

  
  1. #31
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    I never got the chance to play that heel nor the LK so I really cant speak much on it but Id bet it shows in those also. Id say any time you used a weapon that was minimal in size like the one you mentioned or short gaff/short knife, it favored the more accurately placed feet moreso than not. Some work more to the neck area while some more to the body.
    SF
    Good point that Ive not seen mentioned. Alot of fowl are primarily head and neck cutters while others hit to the body..

  2. #32
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Skincarver View Post
    Good point that Ive not seen mentioned. Alot of fowl are primarily head and neck cutters while others hit to the body..
    Thats where the single strokin Butcher originally made their bones Skin, bloody short heels.
    SF

  3. #33
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    In this sport, I don’t use the term accuracy. Reason being, Accuracy to me means you have to have a shooter with a very specific target. I have yet to hear a successful breeder/cockfighter that accumulated trophies by winning of his birds, hitting only under the wings, or any other specific body part of the opponent in the gaff and in the knife. So until then, I’ll continue to use, “Excellent or Deady Cutting Birds” for them that usually dispose off their opponents the quickest possible time. But of course, excellent heeling skills has to be an important aspect of every quick kill.

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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    In this sport, I don’t use the term accuracy. Reason being, Accuracy to me means you have to have a shooter with a very specific target. I have yet to hear a successful breeder/cockfighter that accumulated trophies by winning of his birds, hitting only under the wings, or any other specific body part of the opponent in the gaff and in the knife. So until then, I’ll continue to use, “Excellent or Deady Cutting Birds” for them that usually dispose off their opponents the quickest possible time. But of course, excellent heeling skills has to be an important aspect of every quick kill.
    There are breeds that will hit for different areas. This is one of the reasons some people use Oriental blood in their crosses.

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  5. #35
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    In this sport, I don’t use the term accuracy. Reason being, Accuracy to me means you have to have a shooter with a very specific target. I have yet to hear a successful breeder/cockfighter that accumulated trophies by winning of his birds, hitting only under the wings, or any other specific body part of the opponent in the gaff and in the knife. So until then, I’ll continue to use, “Excellent or Deady Cutting Birds” for them that usually dispose off their opponents the quickest possible time. But of course, excellent heeling skills has to be an important aspect of every quick kill.
    Its also about not wasting your shots like hitting once or twice in non vital areas over several shuffles. The higher and/or closer the ratio of shuffle to hits that are where they live the better the accuracy. In the G and and to a lesser degree in Sk, barring that pinpoint neck/head/ or heart shot in gaff, thats where the zone is. Under the wing and its about a 3 to 4 inch diameter target depending on bird size and frame.
    Gives plenty of margin for leniency Id say, its not about hitting a dime but more about position and extending to that area particularly in the G. There have been several birds years back that lose in Sk by bleeding out from a breast wound thats usually not a kill shot, they simply slump and fall forward. Thats just a matter of being way too wet in that heel on that day. IMHO heeling skills matter most in the shorter blade especially with fork, they dont have much to work with as opposed to a 4 inch or bigger razor so every bit helps. Respectively
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; June 12th, 2019 at 02:28 PM.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    Thats where the single strokin Butcher originally made their bones Skin, bloody short heels.
    SF
    Gotta love them good Butcher fowl.

  7. #37
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunDevil View Post
    There are breeds that will hit for different areas. This is one of the reasons some people use Oriental blood in their crosses.

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    I do understand. That's why the Postiza and short heel players love to have some game Asil in their yard.

  8. #38
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    Its also about not wasting your shots like hitting once or twice in non vital areas over several shuffles. The higher and/or closer the ratio of shuffle to hits that are where they live the better the accuracy. In the G and and to a lesser degree in Sk, barring that pinpoint neck/head/ or heart shot in gaff, thats where the zone is. Under the wing and its about a 3 to 4 inch diameter target depending on bird size and frame.
    Gives plenty of margin for leniency Id say, its not about hitting a dime but more about position and extending to that area particularly in the G. There have been several birds years back that lose in Sk by bleeding out from a breast wound thats usually not a kill shot, they simply slump and fall forward. Thats just a matter of being way too wet in that heel on that day. IMHO heeling skills matter most in the shorter blade especially with fork, they dont have much to work with as opposed to a 4 inch or bigger razor so every bit helps. Respectively
    SF
    We also have to remember that targets in this duels are moving targets usually, and not stationary until crippled and down. So my ideal warrior should hit any part that is presented by the opponent(cause of movement), and not wait 'till he's in a position to hit his favorite spot. That position might never arrive for him, specially in the LK.

  9. #39
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    We also have to remember that targets in this duels are moving targets usually, and not stationary until crippled and down. So my ideal warrior should hit any part that is presented by the opponent(cause of movement), and not wait 'till he's in a position to hit his favorite spot. That position might never arrive for him, specially in the LK.
    You can basically hit whatever part and capitulate a bird in the LK FilaMex. Just swing that long razor and your chances will dramatically increase, respectively. Sure they move in every weapon, but some have good footwork to counter them. In the G then and even Sk nowadays, most prefer those that shoot out like if they came out of a cannon. Alot of those fight in a horizontal line, like tic tac toe. They tend to get lost when a bird steps off to their side and then dances over their backs.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; June 13th, 2019 at 05:48 AM.

  10. #40
    Senior Member leonidas's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    https://youtu.be/7wlTxbWKd6Y

    hope that works and not owned by me but this is putting the feet where you are looking. would have loved to see the entire documentary

  11. #41
    Senior Member MAD MAX's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    My Dad had some Butcher cross cocks that a Mexican friend just loved. They were good gaff Cocks but In the SK they were real hard to deal with. When Dad asked him why he liked them so much he said that they cut the other Cock where the neck goes into the body and in the SK that's a winning shot most times I guess because it hits the spine and its game over. I always thought of accuracy and cutting as the same but I see what you are saying, Ill take accuracy in the context you speak of.

  12. #42
    Senior Member grey/dom's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Gamefowls have instincts to cripple the opponent in battle or hit the vital points. Just prepare them in their fighting form and they will deliver. If they are too fat or too skinny. They can't kill or win. They were given spur to hit those vital points to weaken the enemy.

    I am in awe at those cocks who crippled the opponents knife leg.

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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Some fighting breed were short sighted usually hit with swipe while others hit like to dungles. It's like in a baseball some pitchers sees only the butter but never mind the catcher position and height. Some breed are really stupid not even humans that baseball game was designed to train people to trow grenades as compared to krikets.
    Last edited by antair; June 13th, 2019 at 09:16 AM.

  14. #44
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by leonidas View Post
    https://youtu.be/7wlTxbWKd6Y

    hope that works and not owned by me but this is putting the feet where you are looking. would have loved to see the entire documentary
    Don’t know who won that fight but, that right there shows how evasive movements by smart roosters can
    can prevent an instant kill to happen. Dammn...his head could have been chopped off if it was stationary. I think though that if that attacker rooster went for the body, instead of the head or neck, he could have connected and game is over in his favor.

  15. #45
    Member cbgamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Cutting ability of a fowl is determined by the feeder and the healer. Don’t believe me? Give some young non experienced buck a cock from a good cutting line and tell him to put him up for 3 weeks, point him out and plan on hacking him into you. You do the same, prepare your bird for the 3 weeks and get him ready. Assume your a great tier and the boy isn’t aswell. People watching will say, the boys bird is cutting short or the boys bird caint wip a duck.
    They are very good cutting family’s of fowl out there everywhere, if they cut deep when you need them to is up to the feeder and healer. It has NOTHING to do with if a bird is a cutting rooster or if he’s a rooster with cutting ability. Accuracy in a proven line of cutting gamefowl is determined on show day by how well he is prepared and healed in my opinion.

  16. #46
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by cbgamefarm View Post
    Cutting ability of a fowl is determined by the feeder and the healer. Don’t believe me? Give some young non experienced buck a cock from a good cutting line and tell him to put him up for 3 weeks, point him out and plan on hacking him into you. You do the same, prepare your bird for the 3 weeks and get him ready. Assume your a great tier and the boy isn’t aswell. People watching will say, the boys bird is cutting short or the boys bird caint wip a duck.
    They are very good cutting family’s of fowl out there everywhere, if they cut deep when you need them to is up to the feeder and healer. It has NOTHING to do with if a bird is a cutting rooster or if he’s a rooster with cutting ability. Accuracy in a proven line of cutting gamefowl is determined on show day by how well he is prepared and healed in my opinion.
    No way you eever actually showed fowl regular ...

  17. #47
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Why would you want to? What are you accomplishing by doing this out side of testing for gameness and natural cutting ability? When you fool with birds naturally your not seeing their full potential. Do you have a family of fowl that are ok when fought off the string but are great when pointed out correctly? If so, is that because you turned your “cutting vs accuracy birds into birds that kill instead of swap licks? This is my opinion and was the way I brought up in the game. I hope I’m making sense to somebody

  18. #48
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    You make sense to yourself and that's all that counts . Since you don't show fowl even that don't really matter

  19. #49
    Member cbgamefarm's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Well my goal was to allow non expericaned brothers in the sport to understand that cutting ability in chickens is bred in them for sure but a debate Over cutting vs accuracy is kinda dumb because if a rooster caint cut he’s not accurate. That comes from the genes, screwing them up in keep, bad care,bad healing the list goes on and on. This thread for the most part from my understanding in the first post “which you are NOT the author of” squall paw kid, states that the original author believed that there are 2 different kinds of cutting. Cutters and accurate cutters. So back to my goal, and this is for any body new to sport or anybody open minded willing to learn. Most chickens Have the ability to cut, it is your job to make them the best you can at show day. If they are cutting short, they are accurate because they are cutting. If they cut deep then they are accurate because they are cutting. This has to do more with the chickens being pointed and healed properly than the bloodline its self if the bloodline is already proven and can cut. I do have a few years under my belt and would like to chime in with out being attacked squall paw if that’s alright with you since you speak for everyone....again

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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by cbgamefarm View Post
    Cutting ability of a fowl is determined by the feeder and the healer. Don’t believe me? Give some young non experienced buck a cock from a good cutting line and tell him to put him up for 3 weeks, point him out and plan on hacking him into you. You do the same, prepare your bird for the 3 weeks and get him ready. Assume your a great tier and the boy isn’t aswell. People watching will say, the boys bird is cutting short or the boys bird caint wip a duck.
    They are very good cutting family’s of fowl out there everywhere, if they cut deep when you need them to is up to the feeder and healer. It has NOTHING to do with if a bird is a cutting rooster or if he’s a rooster with cutting ability. Accuracy in a proven line of cutting gamefowl is determined on show day by how well he is prepared and healed in my opinion.
    If you give an inexperienced person a bird just so you could whip him, you aren't proving anything.
    If you REALLY believe what you're saying, and you truly have confidence that you could make a rooster cut, give that inexperienced guy an absolute ACE that has won at least 3x and destroyed all his opponenta in the first couple of buckles, and match him with a dunghill and let us know how that match goes.

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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    You make sense to yourself and that's all that counts . Since you don't show fowl even that don't really matter
    Glad I'm not the only one that doesn't understand what he is going on about.

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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by cbgamefarm View Post
    Why would you want to? What are you accomplishing by doing this out side of testing for gameness and natural cutting ability? When you fool with birds naturally your not seeing their full potential. Do you have a family of fowl that are ok when fought off the string but are great when pointed out correctly? If so, is that because you turned your “cutting vs accuracy birds into birds that kill instead of swap licks? This is my opinion and was the way I brought up in the game. I hope I’m making sense to somebody
    I disagree with your belief that pointing a bird will make them more accurate; if you take a bird that doesn't cut and isn't accurate, pointing him out won't make him cut any more or make him any more accurate.
    Pointing a bird makes them sharper mentally, makes them react quicker, and brings out the best of their natural abilities. However, if they lack those abilities in the first place, pointing them can NOT give them those abilities.
    Accuracy and cutting ability comes from the brood pen. If their moisture isn't right or if they aren't heeled correctly, that will obviously affect their cutting and accuracy. Also, if they go aren't on point, go over, are they are too tight, it will obviously affect their performance. There are a lot of things that can make a bird cut less or make them less accurate, but you can not make them cut more than they are naturally capable of.

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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by cbgamefarm View Post
    Well my goal was to allow non expericaned brothers in the sport to understand that cutting ability in chickens is bred in them for sure but a debate Over cutting vs accuracy is kinda dumb because if a rooster caint cut he’s not accurate. That comes from the genes, screwing them up in keep, bad care,bad healing the list goes on and on. This thread for the most part from my understanding in the first post “which you are NOT the author of” squall paw kid, states that the original author believed that there are 2 different kinds of cutting. Cutters and accurate cutters. So back to my goal, and this is for any body new to sport or anybody open minded willing to learn. Most chickens Have the ability to cut, it is your job to make them the best you can at show day. If they are cutting short, they are accurate because they are cutting. If they cut deep then they are accurate because they are cutting. This has to do more with the chickens being pointed and healed properly than the bloodline its self if the bloodline is already proven and can cut. I do have a few years under my belt and would like to chime in with out being attacked squall paw if that’s alright with you since you speak for everyone....again
    You said that "If they are cutting short, they are accurate because they are cutting. If they cut deep then they are accurate because they are cutting." According to what you're saying, I get the understanding that you believe that if a bird connects with a shot he is "cutting accurately".
    SO, following this line of logic, you would consider a bird that cuts and never hits anything vital an "accurate cutter". Still continuing this line of logic, if you match that "accurate cutting bird" against a bird that hits the heart, lungs, or gizzard every time he picks up his legs, you should have just as good a chance of winning right?

    I may be "kinda dumb" by thinking there is a difference between cutting and accuracy, but I think I will stick to my way of thinking, because your idea of logic is illogical to me.

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  24. #54
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    You DONT need to be accurate with a knife to win but you must be accurate with a gaff.

  25. #55
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    If you give a complete green guy a excellent cutting bird and tell him how and he actually listens , if no variables pop up like bad weather . That bird will cut just as good for him as he did for anybody. If you don't tell him how then sure he can take cut away. Hell people that claim to be veterans or people out of practice do it all the time. You can also fine tune a rooster to an absolute peak where he will perform sharp and on point . While he might cut great right off the cord when sharp and on point I think the accuracy gets a little more precise that roosters straight off the cord but something you wont have straight off the cord is sharpness. To me if a cocks feed isn't gradually reduced to the point of empty or on point he will never be at his peak performance ability or show sharp.
    A bird that land a blow he throws is being accurate but to me the difference is that a good performing bird should hit and land any blow he is capable of but a great bird will capitalize on a vital area if the opportunity presents itself or he will create one .To me that the slight but deadly difference between cutting good and cutting with precision . I would agree with anyone that says in the knife any blow that lands is going to have a negative effect and doesn't have to be precise. A small clip to the leg and your out of the game. Where back in the day.In the gaff it was bad to lose a leg but it was still a rooster fight if you gave as good as you got before the leg got off.

  26. #56
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    It's seperate .. Asil don't cut , they weren't bred to but they are accurate. Hatch aren't accurate but in long hay hooks they cut.

    Pointing brings the eyesight and timing of an accurate cock up a notch but leg slinging cutting cocks can get by just being themselves. That's part of feeding nobody mentions much ..

  27. #57
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    It's seperate .. Asil don't cut , they weren't bred to but they are accurate. Hatch aren't accurate but in long hay hooks they cut.

    Pointing brings the eyesight and timing of an accurate cock up a notch but leg slinging cutting cocks can get by just being themselves. That's part of feeding nobody mentions much ..
    Ive mentioned about those type but in top level where men know how to point their line(s), not sure how thatd turn out. I knew a man that would sometimes take em off the cord after drinking all night and then deciding to enter one that morning. Load em up and win em all. A** kickin, leg slingin son of a guns that did damage quick in the G, what feeding lol? Normal everyday feed is all it was, theyd get there late and wet as hell when theyd drop. He did just about everything you arent "supposed" to do, defying it all while others were going through all the motions prior to and on that day. Those birds were just that damn good on their own. And this wasnt an anomaly, happened all the time.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; June 17th, 2019 at 12:22 AM.

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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    Ive mentioned about those type but in top level where men know how to point their line(s), not sure how thatd turn out. I knew a man that would sometimes take em off the cord after drinking all night and then deciding to enter one that morning. Load em up and win em all. A** kickin, leg slingin son of a guns that did damage quick in the G, what feeding lol? Normal everyday food is all it was, theyd get there late and wet as hell when theyd drop. He did just about everything you arent "supposed" to do, defying it all while others were going through all the motions prior to and on that day. Those birds were just that damn good on their own. And this wasnt an anomaly, happened all the time.


    SF
    Seen that with Gamedogs on several occasions. Right off the chain, into a conditioned one. Helps if its cold outside for better breathing. Without saying names some guys just have some Badass Bulldogs or Gamefowl And can win in unconventional fashion. But as KevinG alluded to, you better have good ones.

  29. #59
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    If you got good cutters in health and can show close to home .. You can pick em off cords if you have a good eye for it and win plenty ..but it's always subjective and selective like reminiscing about our good coonhunts.

    You can't do it in snowstorms , rain ,etc ... Can't haul em far like that or win the biggest legal derbies like that .. Larry Carter only tapered off their yard feed and stalled em overnight . He was consistent at the biggest legal LK derbies . He didn't even put up many . Those big seven cocks , he would have his seven two weeks out , but he knew an ace from a good one like nobody else and could get in their head ... And he only had to travel an hour .

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    Re: Cutting Ability vs. Accuracy

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    If you got good cutters in health and can show close to home .. You can pick em off cords if you have a good eye for it and win plenty ..but it's always subjective and selective like reminiscing about our good coonhunts.

    You can't do it in snowstorms , rain ,etc ... Can't haul em far like that or win the biggest legal derbies like that .. Larry Carter only tapered off their yard feed and stalled em overnight . He was consistent at the biggest legal LK derbies . He didn't even put up many . Those big seven cocks , he would have his seven two weeks out , but he knew an ace from a good one like nobody else and could get in their head ... And he only had to travel an hour .
    If your gifted with that Sixth sense makes things ALOT easier. A select few have it, most don't. My main experience is with a different sport years back and a few guys had a incredible eye for a winning Bulldog or what have you. Could see them for a few minutes only and tell you how far they could go, Champion, Grand Champion or Potlicker. Having that ability is what separates the good from the greats to a large degree. One Florida gentleman had a yard of less than a dozen but the number of great animals, Champions,Grand Champions and producers of Champions was mind boggling.

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