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Thread: Marksmanship

  1. #1
    Member nguzm001's Avatar
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    Marksmanship

    Recently their have been a lot of activity on preferable traits of our game fowl. A member commented on his cock being able to look and deliver his shot where he is looking. Either my birds move too fast for my human eye because when sparred I call them good when they kick in the general area where I want them to hit. My question to the forum is "Can you train your bird to be more accurate?"

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    Re: Marksmanship


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    Member nguzm001's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Hahaha Balto made my day right there haha

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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by nguzm001 View Post
    Recently their have been a lot of activity on preferable traits of our game fowl. A member commented on his cock being able to look and deliver his shot where he is looking. Either my birds move too fast for my human eye because when sparred I call them good when they kick in the general area where I want them to hit. My question to the forum is "Can you train your bird to be more accurate?"
    I'd say some cocks do learn a little but most either have it or they don't.

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    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Its really hard to see in sparring where a bird lands all shots back when legal if you had two long gaffs on him and every time he hung both were hung to the hub under each wing you know he has a lethal accurate cutting ability. You don't see a whole lot of this type bird . Some people or lines of fowl never have or see one.Not to say they are excellent cutters though. I would have to agree with Lablue a bird after shown might learn a little on his own but its not something you can really teach or train for. At least I don't know how anyway. You can sure screw them up and take cutting away though.

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    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Some can't learn , some can .. All can be run through a row of sharp spurred stags and knock th smile off their face ... Give em a week and cull any that ain't way better after a dose of it

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    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    I think they can improve slightly through good sparring as mentioned in comments above. Ultimately the ability to land that shot has to be bred in there, its mostly an inherent trait. The real test is the heel of your region though because often times more than not eyes deceive us. We dont have that shutter speed unless someone is half hawk lol.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; June 12th, 2019 at 09:49 AM.

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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    Some can't learn , some can .. All can be run through a row of sharp spurred stags and knock th smile off their face ... Give em a week and cull any that ain't way better after a dose of it
    I agree if your really serious.

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    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    I'd rather win with a few bruises than lose with perfect skin .. Psalms something or another

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    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Granted if given the time to improve sparring will make a major difference between one that has and one that hasn't that's a fact. Some are just born Sharpshooters from the get go. I don't really think any amount of sparring will bring one to the level of one that was born to it but. The ones that were good from the start can turn great with a little help though .

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    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    I'd rather win with a few bruises than lose with perfect skin .. Psalms something or another
    Best thing a man can do in this business is to know when he has made a mistake and learn from it and never do it or fail to do something he should have ever again.
    I showed one single rooster all my life that had never been sparred. I never made that mistake again. I never waited till the keep to do it but you can bet from the time they were trimmed to the time they cocked out they got plenty of time to learn something.

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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by nguzm001 View Post
    Recently their have been a lot of activity on preferable traits of our game fowl. A member commented on his cock being able to look and deliver his shot where he is looking. Either my birds move too fast for my human eye because when sparred I call them good when they kick in the general area where I want them to hit. My question to the forum is "Can you train your bird to be more accurate?"
    I think accuracy and cutting ability come from the brood pen. What I think improves through sparring is their natural ability. A stag boxing for the first time is just like someone walking into a boxing gym or martial arts dojo for the first time, they may be able to throw punches, but through practice they get more effective at it.
    It won't make them any faster. It won't make them cut more. It won't make them more accurate. All boxing them does is helps them fine tune what they are naturally capable of. That natural ability comes from the brood pen and from keeping them healthy.
    If boxing them could have any impact on "where" they place their feet, we could box an Ace cock against a dunghill and make the dunghill better. Or we could box a Hatch cock against a bunch of Spanish and make the Hatch hit the head, or vice versa.



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    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by Skincarver View Post
    Granted if given the time to improve sparring will make a major difference between one that has and one that hasn't that's a fact. Some are just born Sharpshooters from the get go. I don't really think any amount of sparring will bring one to the level of one that was born to it but. The ones that were good from the start can turn great with a little help though .
    \

    Im gonna take back a little of what I said because I actually have turned one junk rooster into one that could actually turn it on .I wouldn't call him an ace but he showed DRASTIC improvement. Ive told this story before and so Ill try to keep it short. I asked a buddy for a punch rooster he obliged. It was exactly what I had asked for . Sparred like it was punch drunk. Worthless for anything other than that or maybe to eat. Doubt that part. Anyway. I put him on several roosters a day a couple days a week for 4 or 5 weeks straight . Slowly he started holding his own with a few of my better cocks and stags. After a couple weeks or rest I got him out for another round and was really surprised to see that he had a whole new gear and not only was hanging tough with some of my best and he actually getting the better of a couple of them . Now this wasn't some stag just learning the ropes he was and older at least 2 to 3 yr old cock and wasn't new to it . I ended up whipping the guy and his brother that gave him to me and I gave him back to them. I don't advise it and I wont say that it will happen every single time . I wont even say that it would happen half the time or at all .But I will swear it happen that time . I did start selecting a little different at times when I would spar fowl back then. Sometimes best to the best sometime worst to the best. By worst I mean worst of the good . Your better off culling anything less than average the first couple times around. Maybe even some of them after that. Point being if you have a yard full of good roosters its a waste of time spending it one a cull when you could be doing something for them.

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    Senior Member southernX's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by nguzm001 View Post
    Recently their have been a lot of activity on preferable traits of our game fowl. A member commented on his cock being able to look and deliver his shot where he is looking. Either my birds move too fast for my human eye because when sparred I call them good when they kick in the general area where I want them to hit. My question to the forum is "Can you train your bird to be more accurate?"
    Best place to train them is in the brood pen. Selection from your fowl that are Marking birds, Before long most will show that trait.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Birdderfly's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    I know for a fact you can teach them bad habits .When I first started I figured if you spar the heck out of them it would make them better no it made them duck lol.

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    Senior Member lucasemerson's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunDevil View Post
    I think accuracy and cutting ability come from the brood pen. What I think improves through sparring is their natural ability. A stag boxing for the first time is just like someone walking into a boxing gym or martial arts dojo for the first time, they may be able to throw punches, but through practice they get more effective at it.
    It won't make them any faster. It won't make them cut more. It won't make them more accurate. All boxing them does is helps them fine tune what they are naturally capable of. That natural ability comes from the brood pen and from keeping them healthy.
    If boxing them could have any impact on "where" they place their feet, we could box an Ace cock against a dunghill and make the dunghill better. Or we could box a Hatch cock against a bunch of Spanish and make the Hatch hit the head, or vice versa.



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    My chicks all run loose from day one...they spar all the time, so the first time they spar ain't the day they come outta pen... I think this is one the main reasons y a free range chick will whoop the hell outta a pen raised...nature vs nurture...nature wins 90%

    Lucas

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    Member nguzm001's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Thanks for the reply Skincarver. I heard of some cocker's that will keep their at least one ace cocks just to spar those that are up and coming. He will stay a trainer I think it would be a good idea on my yard but peer pressure sets in as my friends see that cock is sparring well

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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by Skincarver View Post
    Its really hard to see in sparring where a bird lands all shots back when legal if you had two long gaffs on him and every time he hung both were hung to the hub under each wing you know he has a lethal accurate cutting ability. You don't see a whole lot of this type bird . Some people or lines of fowl never have or see one.Not to say they are excellent cutters though. I would have to agree with Lablue a bird after shown might learn a little on his own but its not something you can really teach or train for. At least I don't know how anyway. You can sure screw them up and take cutting away though.
    You want to watch where is the cock looking. I’m guilty of watching the feet to much. If we could learn to watch his eyes we might see more. I read a letter from Tom Murphy to I think sweater but Mr Murphy spoke about seeing where the cock is looking and landing.

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    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by nguzm001 View Post
    Thanks for the reply Skincarver. I heard of some cocker's that will keep their at least one ace cocks just to spar those that are up and coming. He will stay a trainer I think it would be a good idea on my yard but peer pressure sets in as my friends see that cock is sparring well

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    I think itll help some of them to some extent . Especially ones that have the ability to do better but want to hold back . Sure don't think itll hurt them. Its a fact that some fowl just like some people have a lazy streak and wont put out anymore than they need to keep up. I think that another bird that brings heat will break them from that.If not then they probably need to be culled or at last never considered for top competition.

  20. #20
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonMurphy View Post
    You want to watch where is the cock looking. I’m guilty of watching the feet to much. If we could learn to watch his eyes we might see more. I read a letter from Tom Murphy to I think sweater but Mr Murphy spoke about seeing where the cock is looking and landing.
    Me too . But I also always tried to watch how they broke , who hit first or second ,where he hit, how good a rooster was able to hit and how quickly he could get lined back up to hit again. Lots of things a man needs to look for but a lot of times sometimes its hard to tell some of the things when you get two that really go at it.
    We had some one time that would meet 6ft in the air and ball up on each other and shuffle straight down to the ground and when they hit the ground would shake forever. You would swear there was no way in hell they could lose. They looked like they would maul another rooster. But they couldn't cut a lick I mean missed about everything they threw and there livability wasn't worth a **** either. You hit one in the toe and he would lay down and never get up. Crossed youd get a few Aces but we never kept them. Nothing tells the tell back in the day like cold steel.

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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by Skincarver View Post
    Me too . But I also always tried to watch how they broke , who hit first or second ,where he hit, how good a rooster was able to hit and how quickly he could get lined back up to hit again. Lots of things a man needs to look for but a lot of times sometimes its hard to tell some of the things when you get two that really go at it.
    We had some one time that would meet 6ft in the air and ball up on each other and shuffle straight down to the ground and when they hit the ground would shake forever. You would swear there was no way in hell they could lose. They looked like they would maul another rooster. But they couldn't cut a lick I mean missed about everything they threw and there livability wasn't worth a **** either. You hit one in the toe and he would lay down and never get up. Crossed youd get a few Aces but we never kept them. Nothing tells the tell back in the day like cold steel.
    You are right. We don’t have high flyers in the north. For short heels we want them on the ground. I have training myself to get low when watching tithe spar and fight. It is easier for I to see at their level.

  22. #22
    Member nguzm001's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    I'd rather win with a few bruises than lose with perfect skin .. Psalms something or another
    This quote matches really well with the aggressiveness vs smatrs thread, Thanks Quapaw kid

  23. #23
    Senior Member Pinolim's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by nguzm001 View Post
    Recently their have been a lot of activity on preferable traits of our game fowl. A member commented on his cock being able to look and deliver his shot where he is looking. Either my birds move too fast for my human eye because when sparred I call them good when they kick in the general area where I want them to hit. My question to the forum is "Can you train your bird to be more accurate?"
    As LaBlue pointed out, it's either they have it or they don't...... after a fight, do you ever check the other bird where the bird was hit and how fatal was the hit? You will have an idea how lethal and accurate your bird was or is..... then compare with your bird markings and you will have an idea of the bird or birds you are using..... or perhaps you never breed your birds then it is going to be a hit or miss.... Or perhaps you have never ever check the other bird because game's over...I have culled many birds with markings after these observations.....my opinion only....

  24. #24
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Marksmanship

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinolim View Post
    As LaBlue pointed out, it's either they have it or they don't...... after a fight, do you ever check the other bird where the bird was hit and how fatal was the hit? You will have an idea how lethal and accurate your bird was or is..... then compare with your bird markings and you will have an idea of the bird or birds you are using..... or perhaps you never breed your birds then it is going to be a hit or miss.... Or perhaps you have never ever check the other bird because game's over...I have culled many birds with markings after these observations.....my opinion only....
    Thats a good idea and many do that. I really never checked the other because those observations within the line new or old were already performed before the pit, at home and at a young age. Culls and lessor ones came in handy, use them wisely before ya give em the crank. In the sk I figured more or less where the shot that landed affected the other one. I never cared for superficial volume but rather that one landed in the right place in the little 1 inch fork sk.
    Best wishes
    SF

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