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Thread: Old broodcock

  1. #61
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    I believe in culling hard , but it goes both ways ... if you have an out of shape broodcock , proven good - you let him get in a pen fight or whatever and then keep at it until he breaks .... you're not culling a defect , you've just done what we all go through as beginners ... culling one that you f'd up isn't culling ... it's you f'ing up .

    Everything has a breaking point ... it's only rare fowl or on rare occasions that you see true gameness . Most all know it - you have to know when they've reached it and live with - culling them for it isn't culling to improve , it's just culling because you can't handle the truth .... some will say their fowl are deadgame like robots but there is a state of mind that they have to be in - even the gamest . Tarheel hit on gameness involving brain chemicals and I agree - and the stronger and more practice those orogans that release chemicals that make us horny , game or mad - the more game they will be.

    I think we could all cull way more growing up on the yard ... in every batch there's gonna be a few stags that are just special , cock out better - transition to their stag feather smoother ,etc .... you have to wonder if a guy wouldn't be further ahead to only keep those and never even pen anything else ...

    I have two brothers right now real young , one is already crowing and answers the cocks - the other doesn't . Aside from the "other" brother winning a hack or just meeting inferior ... will he really haul and be able to hold his own against the best in the world ? I doubt it
    Last edited by Quapaw Kid; July 9th, 2019 at 12:12 AM.

  2. #62
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    . Short story about culling doesn't really have much to do with this thread other than culling. Many years ago I bought a cock from a guy that was burning up the pits with this hatch/butcher cross. I give him to my dad and he liked him and bred him to a couple of his hens. Well the next year he didn't breed him and we showed him. He got in a long fight and eventually quit. It was our only loss so I was pissed. I rung his neck and on the way home dad said I have 13 stags out of him we need to kill tomorrow. Well I got up early and got all of them together. They were beautiful white legged stags good station and super nice. Dad come out with his ax and I said let's not kill em. I'll put the money up on them and we'll fight them and n two weeks. Well back then they had a lot of stag derbies and I put them all up. We fought 5 on Saturday win 5 straight, we showed 4 on Sunday win 4 straight. The next week we showed the last 4 win 4 straight. All thirteen were still fit to show again. After 3 years of fighting those stags they had won 63-64 and lost 6 I think. We still had the mommas but I'd wrung the brood cocks neck. None ever quit.
    I am an extremist. When it comes to a game cock. There are two except able reasons for a cock to jump the pit walls. Steel in the balls and steel in the brains. Now after they get the count . They should continue fighting

  3. #63
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    They panned out for you Del, thats good to hear, thank you. Thats why for a while afterwards I thought about it, because what if I was wrong but always went back to well if I wasnt at least I caught it .... And to add to it his sons did well, although I never got to see how his daughters would do. I know the mama usually has more to do with the stag, which is why I only discounted him and the daughters which was huge for me to do on this small operation. Sometimes cooler heads prevail but I really didnt think about it at the moment because I was pretty mad about it but mostly disappointed. Its a crazy ride, you just never know huh. Just go with your visceral gut instinct at times, other times you lead with your head.
    SF

    Oh what did your dad put under that Hatch Butcher?
    To your original post I have not replied. What I will add is this. This cock was old? He killed two young cocks got the crap beat out of him and he is in mount. I think we all know. As we get older our testosterone levels get lower. At 35 I could have marathon sex. At 43 Iím good for one but . Then I go to sleep lol. I miss the marathon lol. Now here is my point. On my yard when it is possible. I breed young Brood Fowl.
    Iím in a position now with my Brown Reds. I have one cock left pure and he is old. They are getting harder and harder to breed. Iím driving next week. To Illinois to pick up some fresh Nrown Red stock seventeen hours. We do what we must in this game my friend good luck in this next season

  4. #64
    Senior Member Birdderfly's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    I believe in culling hard , but it goes both ways ... if you have an out of shape broodcock , proven good - you let him get in a pen fight or whatever and then keep at it until he breaks .... you're not culling a defect , you've just done what we all go through as beginners ... culling one that you f'd up isn't culling ... it's you f'ing up .

    Everything has a breaking point ... it's only rare fowl or on rare occasions that you see true gameness . Most all know it - you have to know when they've reached it and live with - culling them for it isn't culling to improve , it's just culling because you can't handle the truth .... some will say their fowl are deadgame like robots but there is a state of mind that they have to be in - even the gamest . Tarheel hit on gameness involving brain chemicals and I agree - and the stronger and more practice those orogans that release chemicals that make us horny , game or mad - the more game they will be.

    I think we could all cull way more growing up on the yard ... in every batch there's gonna be a few stags that are just special , cock out better - transition to their stag feather smoother ,etc .... you have to wonder if a guy wouldn't be further ahead to only keep those and never even pen anything else ...

    I have two brothers right now real young , one is already crowing and answers the cocks - the other doesn't . Aside from the "other" brother winning a hack or just meeting inferior ... will he really haul and be able to hold his own against the best in the world ? I doubt it
    First of all I'm far from a beginner almost 30 years in this game but I dont know it all like some I know .I definitely dont know about brain chemical of a chicken but I know what I want tolerate quitting and running or man hack moult hack or manfighter I've been to all the southeast pits from tenn. Ky va. Ga.and la. AND Held my own you read all the books you want and spar hens or what ever you do doesn't bother me one bit.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    You don't have to explain yourself...they're your birds


    Quote Originally Posted by Birdderfly View Post
    First of all I'm far from a beginner almost 30 years in this game but I dont know it all like some I know .I definitely dont know about brain chemical of a chicken but I know what I want tolerate quitting and running or man hack moult hack or manfighter I've been to all the southeast pits from tenn. Ky va. Ga.and la. AND Held my own you read all the books you want and spar hens or what ever you do doesn't bother me one bit.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    I do most of my culling early...

    I been doing this so long I can tell the bytch traits right of the bat.

    Ever run into something or someone that reminds you of something you don't want or like...???

    Of course you have lol.

    Same thing.

    No need to tolerate it....just get rid of it.

    By the time I pen things up. I'm very satisfied with what's on the yard.

  7. #67
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    We all do what we think is best, right or wrong we have to roll with it afterwards and this goes for all aspects of the sport, not just this thread.

    Thats the thing about this industry, someone can tell you or one can read it but thats not how learning and growing comes about.
    Going through it on your own with your own decisions and then moving forward from there is the real professor that truly sticks.
    SF

  8. #68
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Yes....definitely.

    My worst times in this sport was being a follower or trying to follow someone's advice. I always did better...and slept better doing my own thing and trusting my guts...not someone's opinions or shyt like that.

    We live and we learn...

    Except the insane.....they do the same thing over and over.


    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    We all do what we think is best, right or wrong we have to roll with it afterwards and this goes for all aspects of the sport, not just this thread.

    Thats the thing about this industry, someone can tell you or one can read it but thats not how learning and growing comes about.
    Going through it on your own with your own decisions and then moving forward from there is the real professor that truly sticks.
    SF

  9. #69
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    In trade work or even any kind of profession and cocking - following advice gets you in trouble if the person giving it doesn't know the "why" .... like mid-level management where just promote a butthole to keep everyone busy and he's not really the best or most educated , just good at keeping safety or production up .... but if the advice comes in context like how you expect when you go to school or college then it's better . Nobody can get to the top without a good tutor , maybe one guy did when he invented cocking but once the ball is rolling everyone with good tutors are too far ahead of guys without .... I do alot of reading , sometimes to avoid work but mostly to find out why we do things .....

    Teaching is another level of understanding ... there's alot of good tradesmen in the world , had good tutors and tons of experience ... but only a few every become owners or can really explain why they do things ... those that learn how to explain what they do , why they do it and become owners are on a whole other level than the best tradesman .... cockers too .. I look at Gilliam and such as tradesmen that quit their job and became owners -

  10. #70
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    You don't have to explain yourself...they're your birds
    Lino I have to agree 100%. We all do things a little different I've killed a hundred or more in one day. Sometimes it's the only way out clean.

  11. #71
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    Yes....definitely.

    My worst times in this sport was being a follower or trying to follow someone's advice. I always did better...and slept better doing my own thing and trusting my guts...not someone's opinions or shyt like that.

    We live and we learn...

    Except the insane.....they do the same thing over and over.
    Indeed, its up to you to experience true growth and be able to maintain it, nobody else. Only one way to do that especially if you dont have your dad or grandpa as a mentor, get dirty and pay attention to what YOU DO, not others because you are with that flock everyday and multiple times per day. I say dad and grandpa because there is no better, bar none and some of us have been fortunate to have that. Nobody should know your flock better than you do (except for maybe your dad and grandfather with those lines inherited and then some lol), at least that should be the goal and attitude. Heck my dad still surprises and corrects me at times when I overlook something.
    Best wishes
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; July 9th, 2019 at 04:21 AM.

  12. #72
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    My dad bought me fowl I wanted...he let me learn on his dime. We both learned together....never agreed on much...but I still miss that old man...we both enjoyed learning the hard way....then laughing about it.

    You gotta remember to have fun.



    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    Indeed, its up to you to experience true growth and be able to maintain it, nobody else. Only one way to do that especially if you dont have your dad or grandpa as a mentor, get dirty and pay attention to what YOU DO, not others because you are with that flock everyday and multiple times per day. I say dad and grandpa because there is no better, bar none and some of us have been fortunate to have that. Nobody should know your flock better than you do (except for maybe your dad and grandfather with those lines inherited and then some lol), at least that should be the goal and attitude. Heck my dad still surprises and corrects me at times when I overlook something.
    Best wishes
    SF

  13. #73
    Senior Member gaffer's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    I had a cold cock that I culled, but he bred a hen and I couldnt find the eggs to be rid of them when they hatched I said eff it ill see what happens, well damn!t I wish I never culled that COLD cock for sure! Cut like no other.

  14. #74
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    Re: Old broodcock

    [QUOTE=Lino Zuniga;4920780]My dad bought me fowl I wanted...he let me learn on his dime. We both learned together....never agreed on much...but I still miss that old man...we both enjoyed learning the hard way....then laughing about it.

    You gotta remember to have fun.[/QUOTE. Dang Lino, that sounds just like me and my Dad. The best man. I ever knew.

  15. #75
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonMurphy View Post
    To your original post I have not replied. What I will add is this. This cock was old? He killed two young cocks got the crap beat out of him and he is in mount. I think we all know. As we get older our testosterone levels get lower. At 35 I could have marathon sex. At 43 I’m good for one but . Then I go to sleep lol. I miss the marathon lol. Now here is my point. On my yard when it is possible. I breed young Brood Fowl.
    I’m in a position now with my Brown Reds. I have one cock left pure and he is old. They are getting harder and harder to breed. I’m driving next week. To Illinois to pick up some fresh Nrown Red stock seventeen hours. We do what we must in this game my friend good luck in this next season
    . Lol BostonMurphy just keep living. I was still a pretty good man at 53. Lol at 63 I'm about ready to cull myself. Lol. Not much of a brood cock any more. Lol

  16. #76
    Senior Member gaffer's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Like that post blue! I loughed out loud!

  17. #77
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    My dad bought me fowl I wanted...he let me learn on his dime. We both learned together....never agreed on much...but I still miss that old man...we both enjoyed learning the hard way....then laughing about it.

    You gotta remember to have fun.
    I understand, and these posts are all good memories to not only relish but also to learn from. Yes, enjoy the moments. My dad and I have gotten into it, last major one was at a show over my way and his way lol. Laugh about that now but it wasnt pretty then, not to mention those around us that heard but we are the same so..... I always tell him I am what you raised haha. I did feel bad afterwards though! He is the sole reason Ive been around them since I could crawl and then later on as I got older had the memory to retain the moments.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; July 9th, 2019 at 06:08 AM.

  18. #78
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    . Lol BostonMurphy just keep living. I was still a pretty good man at 53. Lol at 63 I'm about ready to cull myself. Lol. Not much of a brood cock any more. Lol
    Every year is a little tougher my friend lol

  19. #79
    Senior Member Skincarver's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Hell boys they got a cure for that now lol . No more of the days where you had a catch up a couple bumble bees and stick down your overalls . You can keep on brooding right on up into yours 90s and beyond long as you don't redline your motor and blow your heart up .LMAO

  20. #80
    Senior Member Birdderfly's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    I keep hearing age but I got a 10 year old blueface cock I use to spar on all my staggs you find out what they made of when then old man gets hold to them and if he shows signs of quit I'll cull his old a$$ too lol

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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    . Lol BostonMurphy just keep living. I was still a pretty good man at 53. Lol at 63 I'm about ready to cull myself. Lol. Not much of a brood cock any more. Lol
    I.let my fathers feelings to choose good hen. Like the old man said he is an expert of touching only but to be a broodcock i dont think so...lol...

  22. #82
    Senior Member springwater's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Its your yard and your standards. If he no longer met your standards then culling was the right choice. Once you let your standards start to fall on a few birds on your yard, your whole yard will soon be below your standards. I don't like having a bunch of beat up birds on my yard either so that in itself would be a good reason for culling. If your standards are for raising the gamest birds you can and not just a high winning percentage and his sons have not shown any signs that they have not reached that standard I would say you have made the right decision on not culling entire line but I would also say it would be worth a really close look and some good hard testing just to be sure.

  23. #83
    Senior Member Birdderfly's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by springwater View Post
    Its your yard and your standards. If he no longer met your standards then culling was the right choice. Once you let your standards start to fall on a few birds on your yard, your whole yard will soon be below your standards. I don't like having a bunch of beat up birds on my yard either so that in itself would be a good reason for culling. If your standards are for raising the gamest birds you can and not just a high winning percentage and his sons have not shown any signs that they have not reached that standard I would say you have made the right decision on not culling entire line but I would also say it would be worth a really close look and some good hard testing just to be sure.
    I have always done good with them they are deadly cutters and this was the first problem I've had the whole time I've had them and I agree I dont want anything beat down or questionable that's why I culled

  24. #84
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by Birdderfly View Post
    I have always done good with them they are deadly cutters and this was the first problem I've had the whole time I've had them and I agree I dont want anything beat down or questionable that's why I culled
    He was beat down cuz you didn't have him on a good cord ... It's like smashing your finger and then bragging that amputated it

  25. #85
    Senior Member Birdderfly's Avatar
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    He was beat down cuz you didn't have him on a good cord ... It's like smashing your finger and then bragging that amputated it
    Einstein it was a brand new cord he just pecked at it till it come loose so I got rid of the slip hitch cord and replaced them .Love the way you judge people without knowing the situation mr. Perfect

  26. #86
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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by cracker View Post
    I had a broodcock hack up when moved him but wouldreturn to normal after a day or 2 he was a excellent producer and 5X winner himself none of his offspring showed this,bit the bullet at 13
    Was that the Long Tailed cock I favored so much? Junior Timms told me something that really spun me around. Henry Wortham showed one of his Hulsey Cocks in an Orlando Tournament and he ran. There is always much discussion and speculation when a runner surfaces. To the surprise of many Henry took this cock back with intentions of breeding him. Pitside he said this cock had won 10 matches and added he would like to have a hundred like him. Junior finished his story by saying we could only expect so much from flesh and blood. This was long ago when legal.

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    Re: Old broodcock

    Quote Originally Posted by RedAngus View Post
    Think on this, the older a cock gets the more his testosterone drops, every passing year. If you've ever butchered a dead game cock and a runner there's a noticeable difference in the size of their balls. If he was 8+ years old I think I would have given him a pass. At that age he should still pass on dead game traits, even if he acts out of character. His DNA ain't changed just his testosterone levels.
    Extremely good point! Being Horny is part of their makeup

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