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Thread: Asil in gaff

  1. #31
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    It's what I meant ... you're right 100% I guess I didn't explain myself....

    They play to their opponents.

    I have a friend who has fought pure Spanish in the sk since the 90s....evolution.

    I have been fighting orientals in the steel.

    Evolution and training for the opponent.


    There's a guy who got some white hackel to infuse to his Spanish about 4 years ago.

    He sparred that white hackel with the Spanish through out.

    I went to see him last winter. That white hackel sparred just like the rest of the Spanish

    Straight stand up fighter.

    Beak strikes to measure and stop attacks....solid single strokes to the head with great foot work in close to the opponent

    No more long shuffles or breaking high.


    Quote Originally Posted by CajunDevil View Post
    I disagree with your belief that all those styles are learned. A really good rooster will adapt to his opponent, but most will fight for the style they are bred for. Just like some American lines break high, sidestep, etc., Orientals can be, and are, bred for style. If we could train birds to have a specific style or hit a certain area of the body just by sparring, then the brood pens wouldn't be so important. Instead, we could all just breed the same birds and spar them to get the style we want.

    Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Lino Zuniga; July 13th, 2019 at 12:57 AM.

  2. #32
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    I'm a stag fighter.

    If they made it to two years old on my yard they are going to be bred.

    Yes that cross I've had for a few years.

    But only on the second year of making it a line.

    Yes they are also the straight orientals I'm referring to

    4 Times crazy is their name

    I just type 4x though

    At exactly what age are you showing them as stags? And is it the Thai blood that would make them 4X Crazy Line early maturing? Just wondering as I know nothing about them (Thai's), and I think the other three are late maturing birds. Thanks

  3. #33
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Anywhere from 14 to 18 months

    As far as the early maturity....Selection Selection Selection.

    I select the early maturing fowl.

    I don't know how other thai are selected

    The thai in the 4x line is very early maturing. The guy I got them from starts them even earlier....and are heavy in pama blood. He got Peruvian bred it them....then culled them all for being man fighters...I kept a hen and bred to my Brazilian Asil blend....played with them and won...I breed winners....so now I'm breeding them.

    I have straight Peruvian that are new to me....they have nothing on the 4x line. I'll probably get rid of most and stick with the 4x line.

    Stock up my freezer again lol

    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    At exactly what age are you showing them as stags? And is it the Thai blood that would make them 4X Crazy Line early maturing? Just wondering as I know nothing about them (Thai's), and I think the other three are late maturing birds. Thanks

  4. #34
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Quote Originally Posted by LaBlue View Post
    I've never seen any straight Asils win in gaff but at 1/2 or even better 1/4 they can help some American breeds.
    I have seen pure Asils win a couple of times in the long gaff derbies. It may not be the best bet, but if you pull it off, you have good Asils.

  5. #35
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    Anywhere from 14 to 18 months

    As far as the early maturity....Selection Selection Selection.

    I select the early maturing fowl.

    I don't know how other thai are selected

    The thai in the 4x line is very early maturing. The guy I got them from starts them even earlier....and are heavy in pama blood. He got Peruvian bred it them....then culled them all for being man fighters...I kept a hen and bred to my Brazilian Asil blend....played with them and won...I breed winners....so now I'm breeding them.

    I have straight Peruvian that are new to me....they have nothing on the 4x line. I'll probably get rid of most and stick with the 4x line.

    Stock up my freezer again lol
    With them Peruvians sizes, you butcher three and your freezer might not be enough. Anyway, is that a pure Thai bird that you posted in "Rare phenotype"? Just wondering if aside from that split feather color, all Thai gamefowls look like him. If so, looks like they are heavy in Asil blood. Wondering as well if Thai cockers show them pure in their own Gaff shows. By the way, is "Pama" another type os Asil? Thanks

  6. #36
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    I'm not sure about that bird...found the video on the web.

    All them oriental fowl look similar. But yes he does look like an asil cross.

    Pama are an entirely different strain of fowl. They're very small and much faster than American fowl...they're a very interesting strain. Mostly used for crosses...like gaff fighters use reza type asil


    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    With them Peruvians sizes, you butcher three and your freezer might not be enough. Anyway, is that a pure Thai bird that you posted in "Rare phenotype"? Just wondering if aside from that split feather color, all Thai gamefowls look like him. If so, looks like they are heavy in Asil blood. Wondering as well if Thai cockers show them pure in their own Gaff shows. By the way, is "Pama" another type os Asil? Thanks

  7. #37
    Member Grey_Grove's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    All orientals are not Asil , Asil are Asil,
    thai are orientals from Thailand, Most thai in america are called “Qaib thai”
    and are essentially hybrids of Thai,ganoi,Brazilian,Pama, etc
    qaib Thai, and Pama are birds bred specifically for performance,
    bred based on performance and not Lineage, most are not “pure “ as we know it
    when a Hmong breed sees a style they like, that they think will improve their birds style
    the Procure that Bird and breed it, Regardless of breed,

  8. #38
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Yes.... that part...

    I agree with this statement.

    Except I know there's plenty who keep their pama straight bred to other Pama just so they can have legit pama for crosses


    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Grove View Post
    All orientals are not Asil , Asil are Asil,
    thai are orientals from Thailand, Most thai in america are called “Qaib thai”
    and are essentially hybrids of Thai,ganoi,Brazilian,Pama, etc
    qaib Thai, and Pama are birds bred specifically for performance,
    bred based on performance and not Lineage, most are not “pure “ as we know it
    when a Hmong breed sees a style they like, that they think will improve their birds style
    the Procure that Bird and breed it, Regardless of breed,

  9. #39
    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    I had some Hatch .. Lost five derbies , but won he last one of the year.... So do they win in gaff or lose . Both are true

    Thats why you get so many intense opinions on stuff ... Two guys with same results could walk away with different views . Like prison sex , both had a finger in the butt but very different views on it

    No pure or nearly pure Oriemtal ever won consistent in major competition ... That's a fact and a few outliers strengthen that to the point that if it's that rare then they intact don't win much .. The truth is when both sides aactually prove the same point

    Id also add in context of a winning oriental Lin for gaff ... Any winning straight probably won't make real hybrids on American .. And any too lame won't make real winners

  10. #40
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    As always a fun read...and hell of a theory

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    I had some Hatch .. Lost five derbies , but won he last one of the year.... So do they win in gaff or lose . Both are true

    Thats why you get so many intense opinions on stuff ... Two guys with same results could walk away with different views . Like prison sex , both had a finger in the butt but very different views on it

    No pure or nearly pure Oriemtal ever won consistent in major competition ... That's a fact and a few outliers strengthen that to the point that if it's that rare then they intact don't win much .. The truth is when both sides aactually prove the same point

    Id also add in context of a winning oriental Lin for gaff ... Any winning straight probably won't make real hybrids on American .. And any too lame won't make real winners

  11. #41
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Kid....

    I gave this a second read.

    I think you're right on most things

    But not this.

    Oriental that can compete and win regularly in gaff can cross well with American.....short gaff.

    I'm not too sure about long gaff..... I kept getting hung up.

    But short gaff fuuuuuuuuu

    Win like crazy...4 times crazy lmfao

    My buddy crossed his Perry from Grady Fields to my f1 4x line got a few stags and won a shyt load of derbies without losing a single fight...in G.T.O Mexico...he lost some birds due to injury but didn't lose a single fight.

    Sooo....not saying that you're wrong....lol....you're just not correct....lmfao

    Could just be a knick as they call it but.....that Perry blood is in Mexico....

    Who has it in the States???

    I'd love to buy some

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    I had some Hatch .. Lost five derbies , but won he last one of the year.... So do they win in gaff or lose . Both are true

    Thats why you get so many intense opinions on stuff ... Two guys with same results could walk away with different views . Like prison sex , both had a finger in the butt but very different views on it

    No pure or nearly pure Oriemtal ever won consistent in major competition ... That's a fact and a few outliers strengthen that to the point that if it's that rare then they intact don't win much .. The truth is when both sides aactually prove the same point

    Id also add in context of a winning oriental Lin for gaff ... Any winning straight probably won't make real hybrids on American .. And any too lame won't make real winners
    Last edited by Lino Zuniga; July 14th, 2019 at 11:48 AM.

  12. #42
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    Kid....

    I gave this a second read.

    I think you're right on most things

    But not this.

    Oriental that can compete and win regularly in gaff can cross well with American.....short gaff.

    I'm not too sure about long gaff..... I kept getting hung up.

    But short gaff fuuuuuuuuu

    Win like crazy...4 times crazy lmfao

    My buddy crossed his Perry from Grady Fields to my f1 4x line got a few stags and won a shyt load of derbies without losing a single fight...in G.T.O Mexico...he lost some birds due to injury but didn't lose a single fight.

    Sooo....not saying that you're wrong....lol....you're just not correct....lmfao

    Could just be a knick as they call it but.....that Perry blood is in Mexico....

    Who has it in the States???

    I'd love to buy some
    On Perry Hatch, I think you’re talking to the right person, QKid. He’ll give you a run with your 4X Crazies with his signature Rampuri/Perries.

  13. #43
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Yeah we've chatted about it on private message.

    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    On Perry Hatch, I think you’re talking to the right person, QKid. He’ll give you a run with your 4X Crazies with his signature Rampuri/Perries.

  14. #44
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    https://youtu.be/Hpc-N1S4o9U

    Very good information in this video

  15. #45
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    https://youtu.be/Hpc-N1S4o9U

    Very good information in this video
    I really wish I can understand what he's talking about but, is he talking about how the Peruvian Gamefowl came about? Would appreciate it Lino if you can summarize in English the good information he's trying to convey. Thanks

  16. #46
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    He's actually talking about Brazilian fowl.

    https://youtu.be/CrrF4IWp2sI

    Here's the link to the Peruvian origin.

    They're French fowl crossed on different oriental

    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    I really wish I can understand what he's talking about but, is he talking about how the Peruvian Gamefowl came about? Would appreciate it Lino if you can summarize in English the good information he's trying to convey. Thanks

  17. #47
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    Yeah we've chatted about it on private message.
    Oh....Ok. Actually, I could be wrong but I think that the Peruvian LK Gamefowl is another kind/type of
    Asil. So maybe when bred as Q-Kid is doing with his Rampuri X Perry Hatch
    , would produce descent show birds for Mexico, P.I. and maybe America(Gaff). Would appreciate your take on this. Thanks

  18. #48
    Senior Member Lino Zuniga's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Kid told me they're small.

    My fowl are all shakes...6 plus lbs.

    But they would be very similar....I imagine.....from what I've heard


    Quote Originally Posted by FILAMEX View Post
    Oh....Ok. Actually, I could be wrong but I think that the Peruvian LK Gamefowl is another kind/type of
    Asil. So maybe when bred as Q-Kid is doing with his Rampuri X Perry Hatch
    , would produce descent show birds for Mexico, P.I. and maybe America(Gaff). Would appreciate your take on this. Thanks

  19. #49
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Quote Originally Posted by Lino Zuniga View Post
    Kid told me they're small.

    My fowl are all shakes...6 plus lbs.

    But they would be very similar....I imagine.....from what I've heard
    Thanks. And yeah, I was gonna say that...your 4X crazies won't match his Ramp/Perries due to size or weight difference.

  20. #50
    Senior Member newtogame2's Avatar
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    Re: Asil in gaff

    Quote Originally Posted by CajunDevil View Post
    Disciple, if it was still legal I wouldn't be scared to put up a show of Rampuri or MacMillian Warlords for a short gaff (1-1/4") or peg awl tournament.

    Sent from my LGL84VL using Tapatalk
    I think straight asils may have a better chance against white hackled types in the long gaffs than in the short gaffs...

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