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Thread: history of Gilmore hatch.

  
  1. #1
    Member shorty12's Avatar
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    history of Gilmore hatch.

    I have researched the history of the Gilmores and found out they were originally carrying 1\2 brown red 1/4 hatch 1/4 whitehackle. My question to the Gilmore breeders out there, do you get black or brown red colored throw back stags or pullets? I have searched past threads and all the pics of the Gilmore fowl are red.

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    Member juize420's Avatar
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Right you would think they look ok on the Brown red side. ...friend has some like Brown red features. .. but most red or wine color.... maybe the chicken has a lot to do with it as well...

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    Member juize420's Avatar
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    I meant more on the Brown red side. ..dumb Swype keyboard. ..lol

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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    I believe many breeders who are in the business of selling chickens don't want it to be known that there are throw back colors because they would be hard to sell. For instance when a customer orders a Gilmore hatch they are going to expect a hatch looking rooster. Mr. Curtis Blackwell's McLean hatch would come spangled occasionally but he would not breed them or sell them because a customer wanted the stereotypical McLean look. Even though the spangles were "pure" it would cause doubt among chicken men who do not understand genetics.

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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Lun Gilmore was a cocker and a good friend of Ben Ford, they fought birds with and against each other for over 60 years. Lun Gilmore acquired his birds direct from Sanford Hatch and Mike Kearney.
    When Mike crossed the Kearney Brown Reds on the Hatch birds they were awesome as any ever bred until this day.
    Sanford wanted to breed them back to the yellow legged side but Mike insisted on breeding them one more time to the Kearney Brown Red side and produced them to fight and fight they did and won some derbies against everyone at that time. He wanted to breed a cock of his fathers breeding, which was the Kearney Whitehackle to the Sanford/Kearney and Kearney breedings.
    From this breeding he had 17 black birds with white specs in them and over 40 Brown Red looking birds, he then crossed these back on the Brown Reds having the Kearney Whitehackle in them and Hatch blood. They came all dark fowl with green legs. Mike gave Lun Glimore 6 hens and one dark red cock to breed over them. This was the origin of the Gilmore Hatch fowl and the Ben Ford fowl.
    These birds were given and sold to Gilmore from Mr. Hatch and Mike Kearney. It did have Mike Kearney's fathers Whitehackle blood in them and still till this day they will come spangle or dark!
    The next breeding that was the Brown Red and Kearney Out and Out became the 42 Hatch that J.D. Perry dominated with the same fowl from same people except did not have the Kearney Whitehackle in them yet mostly yellow leg, and the black legs made em all come odd green legged. Believe it or not, I knew Colonel Givens for over 40 years and he got his fowl from Lun Gilmore in the early 40s and also got some of Mike Kearney Jr.'s Whitehackles that were dark red and spangled, and fought the Kearney Whitehackle crosses at Sunset and all over North Alabama.
    Colonel Givens and Jimmy East were the handlers for John Ovilan Fowler from Huntsville Ala. When John Fowler died Jimmy kept his Hatch fowl and Colonel Givens kept the Whitehackles. So the Gilmore's are 1/4 Kearney Whitehackle-1/4 Hatch- 1/2 Brown Red bred back to the 1/2 Hatch 1/2 Brown Red and kept that way until he passed on. Still to this day all Gilmore's will throw a spangle every other year or so. It depends on how they are bred and where you got them. So there is your facts believe it or not, but if ya didn't get em from Gilmore they're yours Mr. Kelso, Madigin, Law, Kearney, Morgan, O'Connor, there your birds

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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Before I forget, the Mike Kearney Brown Reds and the Sanford Duryeas crossed were very good fowl and after they bred them back making the 42s the breeding back to the pea combed Hatch side was the ones they gave Ted McLean and Theodore McLean (two seperate men) and the ones that were 3/4 Hatch-Duryeas and 1/4 Kearney were the left nose Hatch of the late Sweater McGuiness. Marvin Anderson was in WW1 with Sanford Hatch and become friends in 1910 where they fought in North Alabama in long heel mains which was all new to the short heelers. Marvin's father had the Kelcy Patts from Ireland and Sanford Hatch fell in love with the long heel roosters.
    Sanford gave birds to Marvin untill his death and Marvin gave the Patties to Sanford upon any request of these men and they whipped all roundhead fowl those days which was dominating the early years. Judge Lacy was makin a statement at this time and was winning more than average in Alabama and at the Agusta tournaments. The Kelcy Patts were brought from Ireland by Marvin's grandfather well before the civil war, no one knew there originality. Straight combed, lemon hackled, big thighs and wide backs and spangles came dark red with lemon around the bottom of the shaw.
    The photographs are all black and white, Marvin lost them over the years do to hawks and eagles in the mountain areas of North East Alabama. He owned the Ranburne pit which was shut down in '73 due to his health. Lun Gilmore was the insperation of establishing the Hatch name in the south, Ted McLean routed the Hatch name when he was dominating with the Hatch fowl, Sweater came famous in the mid section of the country, J.D. Perry and Blondy Roland, Harold Brown, Ben Ford, Frank Steel and Curtis Blackwell made the Hatch name in the south east.
    The fowl that Gilmore aquired were the one that won the Orlando tournament from Mr. Hatch and would have payed any price for those fowl and was a very sharp eyed man that could recognise an ace cock, that made him a true breeder and respected in the gamecock fraternity. Sanford Hatch told Marvin Anderson that Lun had the best fowl of the dark breedings anywhere and he would do well with them and at that time Lun whipped Leiper in a fight that lasted 6 hrs and 10 minutes, both men strived on deep game fowl, as did all long heel men of the south at the turn of the century, untill there deaths. Article from Ultimatefowl.

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    Member 2nd to none's Avatar
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    http://crowbotgamefowl.com/index.html
    Something to read when you have a chance....

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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Thanks guys, these are the articles i have read before. I'm wanting to see pics of black or brown red looking Gilmore's. I would believe if someone has true Gilmore's they would be getting dark fowl throw backs given the information listed above. Thanks again fellas.

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    Member hadrian1's Avatar
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    I believe that when a family of fowl it's well bred its very hard to show throw backs. I never have a "whitehackle" lookin bird out of my "hatch" fowl or a "brownred" lookin out of my regular Greys.

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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Is there any instance that your gilmores throw yellow legs ?

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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlbs72 View Post
    Is there any instance that your gilmores throw yellow legs ?
    If the Kerney Whitehackle that was used in creating the Gilmore was yellow legged and you are breeding related Gilmore fowls then yes, the possibility of a yellow legged Gilmore offspring would not be a surprise.

  15. #12
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    I have Gilmore's that are coming about 60% dark red and about 40% black with wine colored hackle and saddle feathers. I will post pics of both when I figure out how to post pics.

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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    was just reading this great post and saw yours. did you ever figure out how to post pics i would love to see those gilmores!!!

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    Senior Member Nauvoo's Avatar
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Upload to tinypic or photobucket, copy link for message boards and forums, come here n paste link in reply. Not to complicated after you do it a few times.

  19. #15
    Senior Member CA whitetoppy06's Avatar
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Rus View Post
    Before I forget, the Mike Kearney Brown Reds and the Sanford Duryeas crossed were very good fowl and after they bred them back making the 42s the breeding back to the pea combed Hatch side was the ones they gave Ted McLean and Theodore McLean (two seperate men) and the ones that were 3/4 Hatch-Duryeas and 1/4 Kearney were the left nose Hatch of the late Sweater McGuiness. Marvin Anderson was in WW1 with Sanford Hatch and become friends in 1910 where they fought in North Alabama in long heel mains which was all new to the short heelers. Marvin's father had the Kelcy Patts from Ireland and Sanford Hatch fell in love with the long heel roosters.
    Sanford gave birds to Marvin untill his death and Marvin gave the Patties to Sanford upon any request of these men and they whipped all roundhead fowl those days which was dominating the early years. Judge Lacy was makin a statement at this time and was winning more than average in Alabama and at the Agusta tournaments. The Kelcy Patts were brought from Ireland by Marvin's grandfather well before the civil war, no one knew there originality. Straight combed, lemon hackled, big thighs and wide backs and spangles came dark red with lemon around the bottom of the shaw.
    The photographs are all black and white, Marvin lost them over the years do to hawks and eagles in the mountain areas of North East Alabama. He owned the Ranburne pit which was shut down in '73 due to his health. Lun Gilmore was the insperation of establishing the Hatch name in the south, Ted McLean routed the Hatch name when he was dominating with the Hatch fowl, Sweater came famous in the mid section of the country, J.D. Perry and Blondy Roland, Harold Brown, Ben Ford, Frank Steel and Curtis Blackwell made the Hatch name in the south east.
    The fowl that Gilmore aquired were the one that won the Orlando tournament from Mr. Hatch and would have payed any price for those fowl and was a very sharp eyed man that could recognise an ace cock, that made him a true breeder and respected in the gamecock fraternity. Sanford Hatch told Marvin Anderson that Lun had the best fowl of the dark breedings anywhere and he would do well with them and at that time Lun whipped Leiper in a fight that lasted 6 hrs and 10 minutes, both men strived on deep game fowl, as did all long heel men of the south at the turn of the century, untill there deaths. Article from Ultimatefowl.



    I enjoyed reading that, not sure 100% if it’s not bs but sounds good idk.. but for starters boom.. there was a Ted AND Theodore McLean..


    ohh Sanford Hatch liked the kelcy patts..
    Last edited by CA whitetoppy06; December 16th, 2018 at 10:55 AM.

  20. #16
    Senior Member rev-23's Avatar
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Guys u on the job so I'm not deep reading like I probably should on this topic. But...... here is my confusion, somebody please set me straight.
    The Gilmore hatch is half brown red (brownreds are straight combed) 1/4 whitehackle(also straight combed) 1/4 hatch (which is heavily bred with Whitehackle and brownred) which both are sc families lol. Soooooo where is all the pea combs coming from. Y isnt the Gilmore a straight comb family? Very Gilmore I ever saw has been pea combed....

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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    The part about Givens is different than I read in the Game Cock.I have Givens and am always interested in their history. The Game Cock artical said Givens got the blood from Harold Brown and the spangle came from Pine Albany blood in them ,for more confusion.

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  24. #18
    Member gobolts0513's Avatar
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    My Gilmores come 60/40 pea comb straight comb and come dark red and brown redish at times they will have white specks. I get em to come slate and green legged. Mine come from Carol back in 92'.

  25. #19
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Givens are basically the spangle version of the Gilmore hatch

  26. #20
    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    Bringing this thread back up.

  27. #21
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    Re: history of Gilmore hatch.

    i recieved my hatches from col givens before he passed. to this day cocks come red but alot of the pullets come brownred, sometimes 100%.

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