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Thread: Counter Styles

  
  1. #1
    Member Hatchstag's Avatar
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    Counter Styles

    Most yards I visit today have Asil crosses. What style would counter the dodging, weaving, side stepping, head neck hitter? Will breeding toward super fast fowls do?

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    Senior Member springwater's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    First have to recognize that there are many different kinds of asils with different styles. Not all asils are the same just like not all roundheads, hatch, or kelso are the same or have the same style. This makes it impossible for me to comment on what may work for all asil crosses. It doesn't seem like in Mexico where asils are really popular now, that people have figured out yet what to counter them with. I know when we use asils, the birds that have the best chance against us are the ones comfortable with staying on the ground. The fast, athletic, high breaking birds usually end up fighting confused. The ones that are going to fight on the ground and not be very aggressive doesn't seem to be as bothered by the asil style as the others. But the asils I use are different than what you describe in that they are more body cutters so if an opponent has a chance against them, they better be cutting really well also. That's about all the help I can give you on countering the style of asil I am familiar with. But to be completely honest, if I knew exactly how to counter them, I may not tell more anyway. lol I mean Superman doesn't go around telling everyone about his reaction to Kryptonyte. lol

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    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    Asil beat you by by getting you to not throw feet ... and they pick you apart , but they don't do that fully committed .. Asil have to and on their feet or get on their feet , They don't full commit and really put their body behind anything unless they are in the air and know they have time to get their landing gear under them .

    If you have birds that spar good but stay in each other's face or are even-Stephen about taking turns then asil will eat them up . If you ever come across birds that come with feet and you notice they buckle into one and then can re-buckle and get two flurries before others can get squared back up ... you probbaly have someething that can whip asil .

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    Orientals are nothing more than “great boxers”. The answer to a boxer is “controlled speed”. Most speed birds only do good going straight forward. Those arent the answer. Orientals like to faint. Most birds fall for the faint and get hit.
    I remember the story of Bobby Boles with his great oriental crosses meeting a man ( forget his name) who had Whitehackles. Boles couldnt whip them.
    The smartest, fastest, quick footed birds ive ever seen WERENT oriental crosses. They did everthing faster and better WITHOUT the bulk of orientals.

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    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Orientals are nothing more than “great boxers”. The answer to a boxer is “controlled speed”. Most speed birds only do good going straight forward. Those arent the answer. Orientals like to faint. Most birds fall for the faint and get hit.
    I remember the story of Bobby Boles with his great oriental crosses meeting a man ( forget his name) who had Whitehackles. Boles couldnt whip them.
    The smartest, fastest, quick footed birds ive ever seen WERENT oriental crosses. They did everthing faster and better WITHOUT the bulk of orientals.
    Yes and very important, controlled aggression. This style of Asil thinks, just like the WH type you mentioned. Butchers are also perfect to pit against them, they can be off beat and very shifty. The consistently successful style is not just a one speed forward balls to the wall type of aggression. Seen many dark legged esp brown reds (Sims, respectively) look like they went through a table saw in no time. From my personal experience, the ones that get shot out of a cannon in the Sk are no good for the calculated type that bait your 6. The key is they counter and take advantage of when the other overcommits and leaves themselves open. Yet those are the kind they love in Mexico, the aggressive nature but its not the gaff.
    Spring I think they know, theyre just stubborn as hell lol. Bottom line is to beat that style consistently you need that style also, its gonna be a chess match period. You can throw a 1000 licks and it dont matter, cant hit whats not there.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; November 30th, 2019 at 04:26 AM.

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    Senior Member Steel city farm's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    Orientals are nothing more than “great boxers”. The answer to a boxer is “controlled speed”. Most speed birds only do good going straight forward. Those arent the answer. Orientals like to faint. Most birds fall for the faint and get hit.
    I remember the story of Bobby Boles with his great oriental crosses meeting a man ( forget his name) who had Whitehackles. Boles couldnt whip them.
    The smartest, fastest, quick footed birds ive ever seen WERENT oriental crosses. They did everthing faster and better WITHOUT the bulk of orientals.
    I belive the WH u are refering to was the Wardell WH of Stan Wardell which origionally were Gleason WH
    Last edited by Steel city farm; November 30th, 2019 at 02:28 AM.

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    Re: Counter Styles

    I'll tell u a story Jimbo told me and it may have come from his daddy Dee Cox. He told me American roosters get whipped by asils because they have never seen that style. He said they was fighting a main against a man that fights only asil crosses after they went 1-1 against him in a derby and teams exchanged words. He said they went home and selected all Roundheads to go against the asils. They sparred the Roundheads against his asils on his yard and the asils whipped them with ease. He said same thing for the next 5-6 sparrings. He said after that the Roundheads finally figured the asils style out and started whipping them. By the week of the main the Roundheads whipped them with ease. They went 5-0 in the main and most ended it in under a min.

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    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by Brettjern View Post
    I'll tell u a story Jimbo told me and it may have come from his daddy Dee Cox. He told me American roosters get whipped by asils because they have never seen that style. He said they was fighting a main against a man that fights only asil crosses after they went 1-1 against him in a derby and teams exchanged words. He said they went home and selected all Roundheads to go against the asils. They sparred the Roundheads against his asils on his yard and the asils whipped them with ease. He said same thing for the next 5-6 sparrings. He said after that the Roundheads finally figured the asils style out and started whipping them. By the week of the main the Roundheads whipped them with ease. They went 5-0 in the main and most ended it in under a min.
    For sure, prepare ahead if a main.
    To me the thing was if in a derby, you didnt ever know (shldnt have) who youll be matched with and most didnt spar against any asil at home because they didnt have any.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; November 30th, 2019 at 08:06 AM.

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    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by Brettjern View Post
    I'll tell u a story Jimbo told me and it may have come from his daddy Dee Cox. He told me American roosters get whipped by asils because they have never seen that style. He said they was fighting a main against a man that fights only asil crosses after they went 1-1 against him in a derby and teams exchanged words. He said they went home and selected all Roundheads to go against the asils. They sparred the Roundheads against his asils on his yard and the asils whipped them with ease. He said same thing for the next 5-6 sparrings. He said after that the Roundheads finally figured the asils style out and started whipping them. By the week of the main the Roundheads whipped them with ease. They went 5-0 in the main and most ended it in under a min.
    I wish folks that challenged me to a main would let me do that .. I need that guy for a neighbor , if his wife is hot I wwill help him move .. Don't sound like he'd mind .

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    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    I find it interesting people on here think that only orientals are smart & slick. Ive seen many smart straight combed fowl that play the same game except they do it better.

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    Senior Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    I find it interesting people on here think that only orientals are smart & slick. Ive seen many smart straight combed fowl that play the same game except they do it better.

    I heard that asil that go backwards are culled .. Agressve , but slick is the goal . Th Rampuri follow that .. Asil that dodge and think they are slick are easy to whip .. They only win so much because they won't do the work for junk and expose culls .

    The pumpkins and other Ameeican way out smart asil .. They at least are bred to dodge out of reach , asil stay close enough to catch .

  18. #12
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    Thats cause orientals are “inside” fighters. Those pumpkins and other American fowl are “outside fighters”. Asils CANT fight on the ouside. Outside fighters tend to use there wings more. Asils dont have a whole lot of wing.

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    Re: Counter Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    I wish folks that challenged me to a main would let me do that .. I need that guy for a neighbor , if his wife is hot I wwill help him move .. Don't sound like he'd mind .
    I think u misread what I posted. The man didn't let Jimbo use his asils Jimbo has asils and used his own.

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    Re: Counter Styles

    The way to defeat a rooster with those traits is to meet him with a rooster that has the same traits. The Butchers and some families of Whitehackles are known for their side stepping abilities. It is fun to watch as a spectator and very frustrating if you are going up against one. Not every one of the strains mentioned will show side steppers. On the flip side I have gone up against good side stepping fowl and it can be so frustrating!

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    Re: Counter Styles

    Peruvian gamefowl crossover to American. Jap works good to

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    Re: Counter Styles

    Judge lacey an he's side stepping roundheads add a some phil marsh butcher and asils will have a hard day

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    Re: Counter Styles

    A typical smart rooster can defeat the mentioned styles... And i already found it...

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    Re: Counter Styles

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatchstag View Post
    Most yards I visit today have Asil crosses. What style would counter the dodging, weaving, side stepping, head neck hitter? Will breeding toward super fast fowls do?
    I saw some really smart Japs this year. All that side stepping got them killed lol. Typical Short Heel Whitehackle and Greys beat them. They spent too much time dogging and not enough time throwing their feet

  28. #19
    Senior Member Birdderfly's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    No matter what style they are if you meet a true cutter style dont matter you cant dodge and side step the whole fight and win sooner or later you got to fight

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  30. #20
    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    Boston,.straight Japs? Even crossed they have to be the right cross. Butchers as I mentioned above and the BBA will outmaneuver the asil cross and are far more accurate, they dont waste many shots. Alot of Asil do that, dance around alot and get caught. The Asil style which are crossed birds that I know of now in Mexico moves fluidly but will also shuffle your 6 aggressively and drop you right there in the Sk. Its not how some are picturing it that they just move and move and zero to minimal offense, like Floyd lol. They jockey for position where the other is exposed and that usually happens on an overcommit and thats all she wrote, they take advantage. You wont get a dumb aggressive style to beat them, idc if they throw alot of feet and can cut respectively. Thats why those asil crosses are growing in popularity there, theyre going up against those type and putting em away. That other style might get lucky on a prayer here and there but with that one dimensional stubborn approach for the most part they wont. It cant keep up and they end up getting the buzzsaw down in ole Mexico.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; December 1st, 2019 at 06:12 AM.

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  32. #21
    Senior Member springwater's Avatar
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    Re: Counter Styles

    I see a lot of people still lumping Asils all together into one style. There are many different kinds and style of asils. Its like saying what style does hatch, roundhead, kelso, or even just greys or blacks have?

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