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Thread: Young vs Old

  
  1. #1
    Member nguzm001's Avatar
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    Young vs Old

    What are your guys opinion on young cocks fighting old cocks? My opinion is as with life once your peak have been reached you start gong down hill and if I were to fight a younger guy I probably would get beat up cause the younger being stronger quicker and more agile. I know different breeds mature later than others and best fought at a later age. When would you guys consider age being a factor for selecting for a show? Young meaning 18 months to 2 yr vs an old meaning 3 to 4.

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    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    for LK big event derbies we prefer an age cock 4-5yrs old for the reason of they hit better (soft spots) and can take unforgiving blows

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    Senior Member Pinolim's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    You'll be surprised nowadays 2 year olds are being used in big time derbies because of their speed and breeders knowledge of their cutting ability they are just as efficient as the 4 yo cocks....... breeders also knew their breeds are game to the core when the fight reaches the endgame......

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    Re: Young vs Old

    I had a five year old Percy Flowers Blueface Brood Cock. I decided to get rid off them. Heeled him up. It was over in 3 flys. I decided not to get rid off them

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    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Quote Originally Posted by BostonMurphy View Post
    I had a five year old Percy Flowers Blueface Brood Cock. I decided to get rid off them. Heeled him up. It was over in 3 flys. I decided not to get rid off them
    that's what I'm talking about you don't mess around with an old fart... Lol

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    Re: Young vs Old

    For the most part young cocks have the advantage early in the fight but if the fight goes the distance, the cock has the upper hand In SK. I've liked them around 20 months for most crosses. It's a good balance of speed and power.

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    Member nguzm001's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Thanks for all replies. I do believe time is on your side if you breed it have those clever know where to hit roosters. But if bred as a go blow for blow rooster I guess the advantage would go to the younger fowl. This is for the LK. where speed kills.

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    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    during my early age of cock fighting I didn't start with a branded bloodline so we try to fight what ever we can afford for small amount of money and ended out with a native cross but we don't fight them until they age 4yrs old where they are better puncher (not multiple but a bullseye punch to the soft spot). until this day I don't match up my bullstag to an older native cock they might not be a fancy fighter buy when you fly with them they know where to hit...

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    Re: Young vs Old

    depends on your neck of the woods ... if folks fight alot of stags or mostly sweater/rh types .. older , experienced Clarets or something may be the ticket . If you gotta meet a prime Pumpkin with something older and slower , forget it . If you don't show alot , you might do better at the good derbies with your molted out 3 yr old winners ... or if you go every weekend and take two shows you could win enough that holding another batch isn't worth it . It's kinda like playing cards , you don't need a Royal Flush every hand to win .... just a better hand than everyone else that round .

    A green broke bull stag that is turning the corner is the fastest and most athletic thing there is .... with weapons on , any advantage the cock has is void . The only reason you can even talk about taking steel , experience , etc is if that steel isn't being used right ... you can't really take steel and live , you are taking misses and deflections and lucky they didn't hit home ..

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    Senior Member Camarines's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill. But in chicken the right age is the winner. Just my thought.
    Last edited by Camarines; February 26th, 2020 at 07:31 PM.

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    Senior Member Birdderfly's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Most guy show cocks at 2 but if you can keep them healthy they are just as good at 4 or 5 well mine are

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    Member nguzm001's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    depends on your neck of the woods ... if folks fight alot of stags or mostly sweater/rh types .. older , experienced Clarets or something may be the ticket . If you gotta meet a prime Pumpkin with something older and slower , forget it . If you don't show alot , you might do better at the good derbies with your molted out 3 yr old winners ... or if you go every weekend and take two shows you could win enough that holding another batch isn't worth it . It's kinda like playing cards , you don't need a Royal Flush every hand to win .... just a better hand than everyone else that round .

    A green broke bull stag that is turning the corner is the fastest and most athletic thing there is .... with weapons on , any advantage the cock has is void . The only reason you can even talk about taking steel , experience , etc is if that steel isn't being used right ... you can't really take steel and live , you are taking misses and deflections and lucky they didn't hit home ..
    Thanks for the reply Quapaw funny thing you say sweater type cause I heard they are quick maturing fowl and that after the 2 year they start slowing down. I wonder if that's why they are pretty strict about stag derbies in the Philippines not necessarily to benefit the stags because of their speed but ti benefit cocks so they dont get matched into a speedy youngster. I always thought stags were no match for cocks because if they get hit they will sink fairly quick.

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    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Quote Originally Posted by nguzm001 View Post
    I wonder if that's why they are pretty strict about stag derbies in the Philippines not necessarily to benefit the stags because of their speed but ti benefit cocks so they dont get matched into a speedy youngster. I always thought stags were no match for cocks because if they get hit they will sink fairly quick.

    Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
    Yes pretty much true you can't match stags to cock or even stag to bullstag or bullstag to cock for the reason of physical maturity. Young birds tend to soak faster that the older opponent

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    Senior Member JLF2.0's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    I dont mind showing a 14-16 month old stags in May/June into cocks in the spur. You got a long row to hoe if your trying to show stags into cocks year around. At least in tough competition.

    I can promise ain't nobody in the circles I run in, in the thick of it winning derbies with that approach. You may get away with it at an 8 entry 3c with the local squirrels.

  21. #15
    Senior Member DPotter's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Just to make a people comparison...............there's a 55 year old man out there, that ain't as good as he was at 25 years old, but he's still better than nine out of ten 25 year olds.

    I've seen shows of 4 and 5 year olds win the derby, in heavy competition. (no luck involved / in my opinion)

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    Senior Member tonetone559's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Boles made a living off of old birds.

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    Re: Young vs Old

    I've shown 6 year old cocks in Sunset and Bayou and they won in one pitting. Do I think they were better at two Yes but they were still awesome.

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  27. #18
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    Re: Young vs Old

    I truely believe most fowl are at their prime 3-4 years old.

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    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    I was always happiest with 3 to 5 year olds, some blood lines can still get it done and are tough as nails. But like ourselves, we all dont age the same and it goes for fowl as well.
    SF

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    Re: Young vs Old

    It seems when things get hot and humid the younger fowl seem to keep a better feather and don’t take the environment as harsh so some people hold out until later shows in the year to match their “Healthier” younger birds into others that are going into moult and look a little rough just my opinion but don’t put your money on a young stag going into solid 2-3 year old they don’t have the manpower yet

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    Re: Young vs Old

    Quote Originally Posted by JLF2.0 View Post
    I dont mind showing a 14-16 month old stags in May/June into cocks in the spur. You got a long row to hoe if your trying to show stags into cocks year around. At least in tough competition.

    I can promise ain't nobody in the circles I run in, in the thick of it winning derbies with that approach. You may get away with it at an 8 entry 3c with the local squirrels.
    I agree the cocks are starting to moult. I would use stags this time of year

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    Senior Member DPotter's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    I was always happiest with 3 to 5 year olds, some blood lines can still get it done and are tough as nails. But like ourselves, we all dont age the same and it goes for fowl as well.
    SF
    I agree 100%. I see that in mine. Some lines age well (looks and performance) and other just don't.

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  37. #23
    Senior Member gaff's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    These chickens aren’t stupid. If they’ve been down a few times they know what’s going on. The experience does help.
    Obviosly he’s a good one if he makes it to 4 years old and has been down a few times but they know.
    When I pick up birds after the molt. The ones that have been in a Keep before remember the routine, after not being in the cockhouse for up to a year.

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    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Quote Originally Posted by gaff View Post
    These chickens aren’t stupid. If they’ve been down a few times they know what’s going on. The experience does help.
    Obviosly he’s a good one if he makes it to 4 years old and has been down a few times but they know.
    When I pick up birds after the molt. The ones that have been in a Keep before remember the routine, after not being in the cockhouse for up to a year.
    Agree with you... A top contender in big derbies said in the interview that they are teaching their cocks to fly above the opponent and most of his fights they do unless the other rooster don't fly with him

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  41. #25
    Senior Member cutcutcut's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Quote Originally Posted by gaff View Post
    These chickens aren’t stupid. If they’ve been down a few times they know what’s going on. The experience does help.
    Obviosly he’s a good one if he makes it to 4 years old and has been down a few times but they know.
    When I pick up birds after the molt. The ones that have been in a Keep before remember the routine, after not being in the cockhouse for up to a year.
    I totally agree with you.
    I don't spar much. But, I test a lot more and it doesn't take long for one to figure out or to know what they were bred for, it's a steep, fast learning curve and many do excel.
    I personally like the 2-3 year olds for the American show. But, many of my 4-5 year olds have done well too.
    I wonder if anyone ever tried to enter a cock in a stag derby? Maybe, there's an advantage with the cock? I think so, to a certain point of development, maturity and experience.

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  43. #26
    Senior Member BILLABONG's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Quote Originally Posted by cutcutcut View Post
    I wonder if anyone ever tried to enter a cock in a stag derby? Maybe, there's an advantage with the cock? I think so, to a certain point of development, maturity and experience.
    in PI it is not possible all stags are wing banded at the age of 10wks old a screening team will visit each farm and banding will take place. during the Derby a screening team will insure that your rooster has the association band and will also check if they are being tampered any one caught tampering will be banned for life this is also apply to bullstag Derby.

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  45. #27
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    Re: Young vs Old

    For the Lk I like a bull stag or 2 year old fast reflexes and has all the power they need 2 get the job done but seen older cocks that know what's going on go in there and out smart the younger hot headed 1

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  47. #28
    Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Some cocks are aces , they get better .... some win several , but just depends on if they met something they can whip ... their age don't always help . Now , you can say a 3-4 year old veteran will whip most and that's right ... but that 4 yr old can't whip his 2 yr old self .... 99% of the analogies we use we invent to support out cause and that's easy to do . Sometimes you can prove it because unless you are in the thick of a legal circuit ... it aint TExoma and if there are 50 entries then 48 are going home losers so there's not a single decent angle that can't be made to win .

    Alot of guys went the route of using some kind of tough , game cocks to wade in there and eat steel until the other cock got tired and then win ... worst idea you could ever put to paper , not a single human alive would do that ... but it worked plenty , still does . If you got some good , tough Hatch/Grey in health and hit the rounds you will get in the money a time or three per season ... and you can preach it . So if that works ... anything will work if you do it right .

    There are stag fowl that at 14 months on and in the right hands and right system can whip most entries before the fight starts ... and when matched right and all that can win the majority and get in the money a few times like everyone else ... I'd rather have 50 good stags and summers off and win enough to be happy than have 30 stags , 25 cocks , 5 old aces ... chickens everywhere all year and still only win enough be happy ....

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  49. #29
    Senior Member tonetone559's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    Last edited by tonetone559; February 28th, 2020 at 12:49 AM.

  50. #30
    Member Quapaw Kid's Avatar
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    Re: Young vs Old

    That's one year of trophies if he won as many derbies as legend has it .

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