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Thread: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

  
  1. #31
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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    I have mentioned before on this forum the importance of learning about the ceca gut in chickens and what it does. If you read and comprehend, it tells where and why the little water puddle with traces of green(grain feed) comes from. When you find a very small black dropping in the water, look out. You got about 6 hrs left to be at your best. I was happy when I could feel my cocks blowing up a little the late afternoon before the show and continued on til the next day at show time.
    Thanks sir, do you mean the bird will go over 6 hours after i have seen the clear water droppings with a very small black dropping?

  2. #32
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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    The dropping phases and the time table on butchering fowl can help that part but a lot of things oppose each other in most keeps . Folks worry about the gizzard stopping .. If they are 24-36 hrs empty then it stopped long before your pack feed fired it up it's back and forth .. Peck feed is too , both of them are contradictory .A chicken at home drops in time with what is really happening .. Dropping them out to trigger a dump mixes up the time table your reading ... Sharp roosters that are game will drop in the stalls and that will be the truth . It doesn't even move moisture to drop a lot ... The bucket under the faucet doesn't effect the amount of water coming out .Ive seen too many times the leftovers get left in boxes all night .. Never dropped or fed and there not be a single one of us that can say they don't come out knowing they were feeling better ... But it's hard to change . I've seen Larry Carter win the Hawaiin with grain in the craw of some and they were sharp ... Gilliam and Rat downplayed feeding , but don't try to follow that because their specialty was winning derbies that would been split 5-1 f they weren't there .. When you they got in a tight spot them cocks were sharp enough to carve out a win .. But so many repeated how Gilliam jerked em off cords that you didn't know what you were seeing
    I agree QK, birds will drop in their stalls especially when they were accustomed to. That is why i always bring foldable rest stalls where they usually take their rest. Thanks.

  3. #33
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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Burihara View Post
    Thanks sir, do you mean the bird will go over 6 hours after i have seen the clear water droppings with a very small black dropping?
    Yes, 6 to 8 hrs. Active, nervous birds maybe a little less.

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  5. #34
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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    Yes, 6 to 8 hrs. Active, nervous birds maybe a little less.
    Thanks so much sir RHman!!!

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Quapaw Kid View Post
    The dropping phases and the time table on butchering fowl can help that part but a lot of things oppose each other in most keeps . Folks worry about the gizzard stopping .. If they are 24-36 hrs empty then it stopped long before your pack feed fired it up it's back and forth .. Peck feed is too , both of them are contradictory .

    A chicken at home drops in time with what is really happening .. Dropping them out to trigger a dump mixes up the time table your reading ... Sharp roosters that are game will drop in the stalls and that will be the truth . It doesn't even move moisture to drop a lot ... The bucket under the faucet doesn't effect the amount of water coming out .

    Ive seen too many times the leftovers get left in boxes all night .. Never dropped or fed and there not be a single one of us that can say they don't come out knowing they were feeling better ... But it's hard to change . I've seen Larry Carter win the Hawaiin with grain in the craw of some and they were sharp ...

    Gilliam and Rat downplayed feeding , but don't try to follow that because their specialty was winning derbies that would been split 5-1 f they weren't there .. When you they got in a tight spot them cocks were sharp enough to carve out a win .. But so many repeated how Gilliam jerked em off cords that you didn't know what you were seeing
    Although I read what you are saying I really don't or didn't understand. I know Garry fought many shows every derby and usually one would get in. I've seen him fight many large Derbyshire and his money fight cock squak and run. Non of those for me thank you.

  7. #36
    Senior Member MONGOOSE's Avatar
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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    I understand the goal of a keep and know you cant treat all types of fowl the same. That said, we only scratched and rotated our old Kelso and starved them 24 hrs and they were quite successful.
    Right now My Dad is into these Gilliam birds. Under our method they aint worth much but a friend who loves oriental crosses and roundheads has made them successful. I can see why so many people dont do good with them. They aint my cup of tea but in the right hands. They are damn good.

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by MONGOOSE View Post
    I understand the goal of a keep and know you cant treat all types of fowl the same. That said, we only scratched and rotated our old Kelso and starved them 24 hrs and they were quite successful. Right now My Dad is into these Gilliam birds. Under our method they aint worth much but a friend who loves oriental crosses and roundheads has made them successful. I can see why so many people dont do good with them. They aint my cup of tea but in the right hands. They are damn good.
    Thanks sir Mongoose. When it comes to high strung, nervous but game stag like the DGRH, i think the best method is that of RHman. The work out at the middle of say 8 or 14 day keep which is tapered down along with gradual feed reduction starting 3 days before fightday; &, the not so extreme water & feed withdrawal, would just be suitable to this type of fowl. JMO. TY. I would try this method after this covid 19 mess.

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    I believe most cockers probably worm their cocks weeks before they plan to train. That's good. But they should also be treated for coccidiosis because all animals keep this in their gut all the time. This affects feed conversion more than anything else and will cause pain and nausea type symptoms, especially when injured. Also they don't cope with stress as well. If infected severely enough, some will quit. You may never suspect any illness til you get them empty and they don't respond like they should.
    Last edited by RHman1026; March 30th, 2020 at 09:57 PM.

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Rhman1026 how do you treat for coccidiosis right before you start the keep I would really appreciate it. Do you treat them the same day you deworm and delouse or you do it at a later time. Thank you yfis

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Gary and Rat knew if you won 80% , you'd win derbies and if you won 80% AND had 3 shows at 4 derbies a week then you'd win ALOT of derbies . His Rh now are pretty game , gamer than the others so who knows . Rat took 4 shows to a 5 cockand went 20-0 , supposed to be a record .. Wherever they keep records I guess

    The weather controls a lot , if you don't have a climatized cockhouse then you aren't in control .. Without the tools and luck in the weather then leave enough feed and water in them they can regulate themselves and with good fowl and right draw you can win enough to call it good .
    Last edited by Quapaw Kid; March 31st, 2020 at 06:44 AM.

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by ezpz View Post
    I have heard and believe that some breeds/lines of roosters drink more than others. I know I drink more than most folks. I have some crosses that drink more than the others. One in particular is a 6x winner, all gaff. He drinks almost double what the rest do. always has.
    That's knowing your birds. I have very few so I check stuff like that just for something to do. I have 2 that drink far more than the others but night before show they didn't drink. The feed was slop according taught by Ratliff.

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    Senior Member gaffer's Avatar
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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Good bred gamefowl that are fed properly will overcome luck and weather. YOU WILL NOT CONVINCE ME OTHERWISE.
    Last edited by gaffer; March 31st, 2020 at 08:08 AM.

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Pope18 View Post
    Rhman1026 how do you treat for coccidiosis right before you start the keep I would really appreciate it. Do you treat them the same day you deworm and delouse or you do it at a later time. Thank you yfis
    Sir Pope, here in PI we usually deworm again 10 days before fightday. RHman might help us know the right time to treat them with sulfa.

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  18. #44
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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by Pope18 View Post
    Rhman1026 how do you treat for coccidiosis right before you start the keep I would really appreciate it. Do you treat them the same day you deworm and delouse or you do it at a later time. Thank you yfis
    Not right before keep!! 2 1/2wks. before. Corid or Di-Methox. In drinking water for 5 days. Go by directions on jug. A bite of probiotic paste is good too. Give 1/4cc oxetetracycline(Bio-Mycin) the day after you stop treatment.
    When cock have a bad case of cocci, when they start to pass their last brown droppings beginning to get near empty, if you ck very close you might see very small red specs in their droppings. This is from the linings of their intestines. Went thru all this with my partner's dad's greys. Got a lot of info from the vet.
    Last edited by RHman1026; April 1st, 2020 at 02:30 AM.

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    Not right before keep!! 2 1/2wks. before. Corid or Di-Methox. In drinking water for 5 days. Go by directions on jug. A bite of probiotic paste is good too. Give 1/4cc oxetetracycline(Bio-Mycin) the day after you stop treatment.
    When cock have a bad case of cocci, when they start to pass their last brown droppings beginning to get near empty, if you ck very close you might see very small red specs in their droppings. This is from the linings of their intestines. Went thru all this with my partner's dad's greys. Got a lot of info from the vet.
    Very much appreciated Rhman. Thank you for helping out us beginners.

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    Senior Member KevinG's Avatar
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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    Not right before keep!! 2 1/2wks. before. Corid or Di-Methox. In drinking water for 5 days. Go by directions on jug. A bite of probiotic paste is good too. Give 1/4cc oxetetracycline(Bio-Mycin) the day after you stop treatment.
    When cock have a bad case of cocci, when they start to pass their last brown droppings beginning to get near empty, if you ck very close you might see very small red specs in their droppings. This is from the linings of their intestines. Went thru all this with my partner's dad's greys. Got a lot of info from the vet.
    Excellent. Id run some Corid in their water to almost the very end. Thiamine helps absorption and nervous system, so you keep the gut clean of Cocci so it dont rob the bird of its maximum potential.
    SF

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    Not right before keep!! 2 1/2wks. before. Corid or Di-Methox. In drinking water for 5 days. Go by directions on jug. A bite of probiotic paste is good too. Give 1/4cc oxetetracycline(Bio-Mycin) the day after you stop treatment.When cock have a bad case of cocci, when they start to pass their last brown droppings beginning to get near empty, if you ck very close you might see very small red specs in their droppings. This is from the linings of their intestines. Went thru all this with my partner's dad's greys. Got a lot of info from the vet.
    Thanks for sharing your thoughts sir RHman. Youre a big help to us beginners, Godbless!!!!

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    Excellent. Id run some Corid in their water to almost the very end. Thiamine helps absorption and nervous system, so you keep the gut clean of Cocci so it dont rob the bird of its maximum potential.
    SF
    Running Corid in any animal's water over about 7 days is bad because it depletes the vitamines and minerals and causes an imbalance in the animals body. I was guility of that with my Boer goat herd. Causes crazy symptons. Go by directions on jug. Be sure to add probiotic back into their feed. Corid, in effect, sterilizes the gut and kills the good bacteria as well as the cocci.
    Last edited by RHman1026; April 3rd, 2020 at 09:57 PM.

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    Running Corid in any animal's water over about 7 days is bad because it depletes the vitamines and minerals and causes an imbalance in the animals body. I was guility of that with my Boer goat herd. Causes crazy symptons. Go by directions on jug. Be sure to add probiotic back into their feed. Corid, in effect, sterilizes the gut and kills the good bacteria as well as the cocci.
    Do you still breed Boer goats?

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    Running Corid in any animal's water over about 7 days is bad because it depletes the vitamines and minerals and causes an imbalance in the animals body. I was guility of that with my Boer goat herd. Causes crazy symptons. Go by directions on jug. Be sure to add probiotic back into their feed. Corid, in effect, sterilizes the gut and kills the good bacteria as well as the cocci.
    For sure yes and throughout I meant I use it at beginning and end when Im done working them to be exact RHMan. As you said it will deplete the good bacteria but they cant overdose on it. Id just make sure to add something with Bacillus in it in the interim period and even strawberry yogurt via the feed. I use very little, half a tsp to a gallon at beginning, quarter tspn to gal at end. I read a ton on it back then, Grady Fields used it and its where I got the idea from. I give my lil ones Corid, cycle it with probiotics. Ive read places where people say Corid doesnt work anymore, thats totally false.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; April 4th, 2020 at 01:28 AM.

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  28. #51
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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    No, When the market began to fall for top end breeding and show stock, I sold out because I didn't have enough land to raise meat kids profitably.

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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinG View Post
    For sure yes and throughout I meant I use it at beginning and end when Im done working them to be exact RHMan. As you said it will deplete the good bacteria but they cant overdose on it. Id just make sure to add something with Bacillus in it in the interim period and even strawberry yogurt via the feed. I use very little, half a tsp to a gallon at beginning, quarter tspn to gal at end. I read a ton on it back then, Grady Fields used it and its where I got the idea from. I give my lil ones Corid, cycle it with probiotics. Ive read places where people say Corid doesnt work anymore, thats totally false.
    SF
    I likes Di-Methox much better. Seemed to be more stable?

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  32. #53
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    Re: Hugh Norman Keep Water Control on 12th & 13th Day

    Quote Originally Posted by RHman1026 View Post
    I likes Di-Methox much better. Seemed to be more stable?
    They claim that there are better ones out there but Corid keeps my little ones alive, did the job recently when some that I was raising together got sick on me and I managed to save most of that bunch. There might be better and they may even cost more at that I dont know RHMan but if Corid works for me then Im gonna stick to it until it no longer does. I always remind myself, these are small creatures, it dont take much.
    SF
    Last edited by KevinG; April 4th, 2020 at 04:42 AM.

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