free ranging or controlled environment ? - Page 4 - Sabong, Cockfighting and Gamefowl Posting Pit

gaffer · June 28th, 2012, 11:43 PM

Cock Fight Foghorn Leghorn - Rojo the Rooster song Cockfight - YouTube

Haha! I get a kick out of this!

gaffer · June 28th, 2012, 11:50 PM

Gallo Del Cielo - YouTube

Here ya go a song redone by an Oklahoma boy!

laguardia · June 29th, 2012, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engkanto

I free-range my chicks when they are about 2 weeks old with the hen. They stay on the range until they are about 5 or 6 months. I let them enjoy freedom and be on their own at this crucial stage of their growing life. I have high mortality rate doing this but overtime with proper selection, I will have a stronger flock, maybe smarter and with better immune system. These important traits they more likely will pass to the succeeding generations.

Here's a few pics of some of my 2012 Biddies. I now have around 100 biddies of varying age running around, one of my busiest years, lol...

Great Pics of beautiful fowl and land ! Congratulations Edwin You have to be prowd. !!!

gaffer · June 29th, 2012, 01:33 AM

Those ducks look game as hell! LOL! THE MIGHTY DUCKS! You may be on to something!

Engkanto · June 29th, 2012, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffer

Nevermind I didn't see that post. Now I see how people are breeding the game out of them. Keeping the ones that don't fight to the end????? HHMMMM........ not something I would do. No no no! Steel or no steel. The old timers bred the american games to go to the end steel or not. That is what makes them game.

With all due respect Sir, I can't really see how you can make that hasty generalization. How can you say that just because I can let them free-range longer, I'm breeding out gameness out of them? Your statement is highly fallacious. Can you please educate me on how this usually would happen? I'm a bit slow sometimes.

I free-range my chicks when they are 2 weeks old and always with the hen (if they are that young). They have plenty of open space to roam around. If they do 'fight' while with the hen, my hen usually will break their fight. At a later stage though, the one dominating the range (the alpha stag who is usually much older than the rest) will stop any fighting, else he will be fighting the one trying to take his place as the big boss. As much as possible, I always try to keep an older stag with a young batch. But of course, some other strains are really early maturing and have to be penned much earlier, my Brassback Albanies and Roundhead crosses are two examples. My Black Jap grades, I can free-range them even more than 6 months, they are late maturing.

Let me show you a few pics and see how feisty these chicks are even at a young age:

Here's a Cobra baby stag vs an older Brassback Albany stag

And here's a Lacy/Bruner baby stag fighting an Albany hen

Peace!!!

antiquenio · June 29th, 2012, 10:37 AM

Princess, this is Manny, Tiny's friend in L.A. and this is our (my brother and me) range in Antique. The mother of the grey chicks is a gift from Tiny (1/2 Jumper Grey 1/2 H Brown Grey).

Click on the link below and on any picture to view larger image
http://s662.photobucket.com/albums/u...cks/?start=all

gamecock96 · June 29th, 2012, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffer

Nevermind I didn't see that post. Now I see how people are breeding the game out of them. Keeping the ones that don't fight to the end????? HHMMMM........ not something I would do. No no no! Steel or no steel. The old timers bred the american games to go to the end steel or not. That is what makes them game.

Gaffer,
At what age do you separate your stags? Those cockerels look like at most 3 months only..

Al

ChinaRose · July 1st, 2012, 07:30 AM

[QUOTE=antiquenio;4156840]Princess, this is Manny, Tiny's friend in L.A. and this is our (my brother and me) range in Antique. The mother of the grey chicks is a gift from Tiny (1/2 Jumper Grey 1/2 H Brown Grey).

hello antigueno (manny), you are so lucky!!!
how can some people be so lucky and not
others ... I have just been crying my heart
out coz my prized tiger grey was eaten by a
python just days ago... the python in turn
was eaten by my boyz. haaaaaaaaay naku...
that is a big spread you got there.

have you been breeding long ?
thanks for posting and calling me out.
May I pm you ?
good luck !!!

antiquenio · July 1st, 2012, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinaRose

hello antigueno (manny), you are so lucky!!!
how can some people be so lucky and not
others

... I have just been crying my heart
out coz my prized tiger grey was eaten by a
python just days ago... the python in turn
was eaten by my boyz. haaaaaaaaay naku...
that is a big spread you got there.

have you been breeding long ?
thanks for posting and calling me out.
May I pm you ?
good luck !!!

i sent you a pm. hope to meet you when i am in Manila.

ChinaRose · July 2nd, 2012, 01:13 AM

engkanto : those chicks are really looking
good and feisty !!! are those your dream
birds ?

antigueno : thanks for the pm will pm you
back later... have you tested those half
jumper/half h.brown...

jay-jay : will you be fighting anytime soon?

gaffer · July 2nd, 2012, 10:02 PM

Pretty small, most of them will kill relentlessly early on. If you separate them in the yard they will just run across the yard to fight. Those are just some that we have bred. I just don't think stags at any age other than a month old should be "getting along". Of course I'm a gaff guy. I think "LK bred" birds are inferior. I know this is anecdotal evidence but... I've seen some LK bred birds in the gaff and they are no competition.

gaffer · July 2nd, 2012, 10:10 PM

I'm going to have to get a digital cam.

gamecock96 · July 2nd, 2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffer

Pretty small, most of them will kill relentlessly early on. If you separate them in the yard they will just run across the yard to fight. Those are just some that we have bred. I just don't think stags at any age other than a month old should be "getting along". Of course I'm a gaff guy. I think "LK bred" birds are inferior. I know this is anecdotal evidence but... I've seen some LK bred birds in the gaff and they are no competition.

I think you are speaking for yourself alone. I have been to farms in the US and they pen their stags at 5 or 6 months. That includes people who fight in gaffs..... That is why is was wondering at what age YOU pen your stags..When i lived in the US, we fought 3 weapons. The chickens didn't know what weapon they would be fighting into....

Al

gaffer · July 2nd, 2012, 10:38 PM

Yeah, The people who breed to "SELL" not fight in the states I think you'd find their personal stache a little more rugged. Haha! I know a chicken doesn't know what weapon. That's YOUR job.

jailbird · July 2nd, 2012, 10:53 PM

Had a batch of Maclean Hatch birds 5 full brothers who wouldnt fight anyone until they were 9 months old. They were so well developed because they had such a long time free ranging. They would mount the hens but never showed fight. To prevent them from mounting the hens in the "cleansing" range they were put in cords. 2 months later (11 months old) they started to fight any rooster and sparred viciously. They were full feathered and were not even close to molting so they were fought in hacks and all won. Encouraged by the astounding performance they were fought in separate small derby events and all won again but 2 died from wounds. 3 were killed by a typhoon that blew out their teepees and hit them. I guess my point is that this gives credence to my mentors advice to me 40 years ago, that late maturing birds from a good bloodline are better than those that mature too early. Maybe its just that they get to exercise and hunt longer than those that need to be put on cord/pens at a young age.

gaffer · July 2nd, 2012, 11:09 PM

Ya know anyone could pass off a number of birds with this name or that name. Really in the states that doesn't matter because "that" is just marketing. It is a quantity game to sell them because they couldn't consistently win with mediocre fowl. So they grow up hundreds "that aren't so aggressive, they kill each other when young so they produce more. Guys who breed them to fight won't sell ya anything. Because they are not the same fowl as the ones bred to "SELL".

gamecock96 · July 3rd, 2012, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffer

Ya know anyone could pass off a number of birds with this name or that name. Really in the states that doesn't matter because "that" is just marketing. It is a quantity game to sell them because they couldn't consistently win with mediocre fowl. So they grow up hundreds "that aren't so aggressive, they kill each other when young so they produce more. Guys who breed them to fight won't sell ya anything. Because they are not the same fowl as the ones bred to "SELL".

Well, the thing is sometimes science comes into play. It has been accepted that what triggers the aggressiveness and the fight in Gamefowls is environment, sex, to a certain extent bloodline. It has been proven that to extend the time that the males are together, you have to keep females off the range, put a dominating older male (preferably a cock) . People do that so that you can keep them together in the range so they would develop. I do not think it really affects their gameness when it is time for them to be fought. But i guess that is OUR opinion only on this. Can you post pictures of your small cockerels ? Do you pen raise them??

Al

kywolf · July 3rd, 2012, 08:09 AM

the age they turn game has nothing to do with how game they will be.actually i think the later maturing fowl make better roosters.the longer they get to run loose the healthier they seem to be.

gamecock96 · July 3rd, 2012, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kywolf

the age they turn game has nothing to do with how game they will be.actually i think the later maturing fowl make better roosters.the longer they get to run loose the healthier they seem to be.

That's exactly what we are trying to tell gaffer. It seems he has an impression that American breeders pen their fowls early. Those cockerels he is questioning are only around 3 months at the most... There is nothing irregular at that age being ranged...

Al

kywolf · July 3rd, 2012, 08:25 AM

he seems to think that anything still running out over 1 month old isnt game.i'm a 3rd generation cocker an have been around an raised them most my life an ive never seen any that had to be put up at a month.they may have some minor squabbles at that age but it dont mean they will fight to the death.once their heads get sore they will settle down.even the gamest of gaff roosters wont turn till 5-6 months an in alot of cases older.also gaff an knife roosters are no differnt,they both better be game if you expect to win.

Engkanto · July 3rd, 2012, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinaRose

engkanto : those chicks are really looking
good and feisty !!! are those your dream
birds ?

Thanks Madam China.

I'm still years away from breeding my ideal birds. But surely, the ones I am raising now will play a big role towards my dream birds. But of course, I'm sure when I'm near or almost within reach of my ideal birds, there is always something to tweak and make necessary adjustments, and the chase is on again. Really a never ending quest and this is what makes our sports so 'addictive', LOL...

DIESEL2007 · July 3rd, 2012, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kywolf

the age they turn game has nothing to do with how game they will be.actually i think the later maturing fowl make better roosters.the longer they get to run loose the healthier they seem to be.

I agree with this 100% good statement

nicogamefarm · July 3rd, 2012, 12:38 PM

off season offspring controlled environment don't see any deterrents

BantonSpur · July 3rd, 2012, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaffer

Pretty small, most of them will kill relentlessly early on. If you separate them in the yard they will just run across the yard to fight. Those are just some that we have bred. I just don't think stags at any age other than a month old should be "getting along". Of course I'm a gaff guy. I think "LK bred" birds are inferior. I know this is anecdotal evidence but... I've seen some LK bred birds in the gaff and they are no competition.

And I am a Long Knife Guy and I think otherwise...

It is a fact that different weapons require different set of traits from the birds. The over aggressive ones maybe good for the gaff but they will be dead in the Long knife. Because of these requirements, we breed accordingly. If you say that LK bred birds are no competition in the gaff, that is expected as they are bred for the long knife. Bring over some Gaff bred birds in the WSC and I am sure you will find out how inferior your gaff bred birds are in the long knife... I hope this does not turn out to be a pissing competition between gaff anf long knife enthusiasts... peace.