The Breeding of Asil/Grades - Page 210 - Sabong, Cockfighting and Gamefowl Posting Pit

profits · June 29th, 2012, 01:20 AM

One of my favorite graded asil, our neighbor backyard farm is willing to swap 3 battle cocks with this cock. Two of his brother already won 1X,he is one of my brood cock this coming breeding season.

double spur and with scales under his toes.

glenn · June 29th, 2012, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engkanto

Thanks for the info Glenn, first time to hear that story about the Royal Asils in India. Interesting story.

I haven't seen the latest issue of Cockfights magazine yet but Bobby got a copy already. Yeah, he said Engkanto was mentioned for picture credits. Bobby is helping Gene at his farm.

No, I don't have Gene's Albany. I only have his Mcleans and Greys that he gave me as gifts. Not really a big fan of Greys so i didn't breed much of this line. My red Albany family was from a local breeder here in GA that I got even before I met Gene. But later, Gene was instrumental in me getting a very old line of red Albany (not his Hoskins) and this I blended with my old red line. My brassback Albany is from my friends Jim Bond and Joe Lewis of AL.

Btw, i saw the picture of your pumpkin Albany from James and oh man, he is really nice. Good luck breeding those beautiful birds. Sana maparami mo sila.

Thanks again.

Yfis,
Edwin

Edwin, The story of the blending of the Royal Asil was printed in one of the old issues of Gamecock. Who really knows whether it is accurate but at the time i read it...it made some sense that there would be some infusion of Black Sumatra... because of the multi-spurs...Anyway, maybe someone out there can shed some light on this subject.
I am very happy with the Albanys that i got from James, thanks for the kind words.

By the way, i will PM you to inquire about Genes' fowl.

don b · June 29th, 2012, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn

Edwin, like i have often said...these multi spurred (double or triple) orientals are in my experience...the best cutting. I had one triple spurred asil given to me by Paeng Araneta and it had sons that won 5, 6, 7 times...

These orientals that show multi-spurs are believed to be descendants of the first attempts of the making of the royal asils in india where they combined the Malay type with the Wild Indian Jungle fowl and the triple-spurred Black Sumatra...

Thanks for the info Glen, were the asils that Paeng Araneta have came from Ramon Mitra's Boles fowls? I understand that Paeng moved his farm to Mitra's farm land to help out after his friend the late Louie beltran died...............

cnucum · June 29th, 2012, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by don b

Thanks for the info Glen, were the asils that Paeng Araneta have came from Ramon Mitra's Boles fowls? I understand that Paeng moved his farm to Mitra's farm land to help out after his friend the late Louie beltran died...............

I think a lot of paeng's asil / grades came from ray alexander or past WSC participants he invited to the Philippines?

Engkanto · June 29th, 2012, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn

Edwin, The story of the blending of the Royal Asil was printed in one of the old issues of Gamecock. Who really knows whether it is accurate but at the time i read it...it made some sense that there would be some infusion of Black Sumatra... because of the multi-spurs...Anyway, maybe someone out there can shed some light on this subject.
I am very happy with the Albanys that i got from James, thanks for the kind words.

By the way, i will PM you to inquire about Genes' fowl.

I'm glad to hear that you're very happy with your Albany. These Albanys are really something. You can cross them to any decent family and immediately you will see some improvements especially in the cutting department. I have some friends who are very happy with their Oriental/Albany blends. I heard JW Purdy is also very satisfied with his Cobra/Albany crosses.

Have you tried crossing your Brazilians to your Albanies? Just wondering how this blend of two families of excellent cutters turned out.

Thanks!

Baby Fight: A Brassback Albany baby stag honing his skills against a younger Cobra stag

blades61 · June 29th, 2012, 10:12 PM

nice pic the one on the bottom looks like hes saying oh no!!!

glenn · June 30th, 2012, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engkanto

I'm glad to hear that you're very happy with your Albany. These Albanys are really something. You can cross them to any decent family and immediately you will see some improvements especially in the cutting department. I have some friends who are very happy with their Oriental/Albany blends. I heard JW Purdy is also very satisfied with his Cobra/Albany crosses.

Have you tried crossing your Brazilians to your Albanies? Just wondering how this blend of two families of excellent cutters turned out.

Thanks!

Baby Fight: A Brassback Albany baby stag honing his skills against a younger Cobra stag

INCREDIBLE N AMAZING SHOT! ... was this a frame by frame shot of a video ? or did you capture it with a still shot camera?

The Brazilians take a lot of work for grading... they hve to be grade down to 1/8 so i have not tried it yet. i am now moving towards using the japs and rampuri to make grades because some of them can be used at 50% and at 1/4 practically all of them can be used for fighting.

shanebo · June 30th, 2012, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engkanto

I'm glad to hear that you're very happy with your Albany. These Albanys are really something. You can cross them to any decent family and immediately you will see some improvements especially in the cutting department. I have some friends who are very happy with their Oriental/Albany blends. I heard JW Purdy is also very satisfied with his Cobra/Albany crosses.

Have you tried crossing your Brazilians to your Albanies? Just wondering how this blend of two families of excellent cutters turned out.

Thanks!

Baby Fight: A Brassback Albany baby stag honing his skills against a younger Cobra stag

After a little chicken talk with Glenn and Draven a few weeks ago I have started to frequent your guys thread here on Asils, might have got bitten by the Asil bug... Engkanto, I really enjoy those photos of the Cubans you post....This photo is really nice for sure!!!

glenn · June 30th, 2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by don b

Thanks for the info Glen, were the asils that Paeng Araneta have came from Ramon Mitra's Boles fowls? I understand that Paeng moved his farm to Mitra's farm land to help out after his friend the late Louie beltran died...............

According to Paeng, he got them from Nene Abello...who apparently got them from Carol NeSmith...
Interestingly, one of the last interviews that my good friend, the late Emoy Gorgonia did before he met his demise was of Nene Abello. And in that interview, Emoy mentioned to me that off the record, Nene confided to him that the very first set of Sweaters that won them the World Slashers in the 1990's had 1/8th asil blood in them...
And, in retrospect... i remember the very first Sweaters that were sold out of Nene Abello's farm that were purchased by my then-breeding partner Alvin Ong/Lim had very peculiar scale patterns similar to those that you see on ASils/orientals and their grades... so i would not discount the idea that Sweaters have some Oriental infusions in them...(how else did they get so tall in the first place)
Not trying to create a stir...but im sure this will raise some hackles..

Good Game · June 30th, 2012, 11:05 AM

Glenn what are your thoughts reguarding Orlando's rampuri blood? If i remember correctly Wally was not to keen about them. Now that some of the grades are older what is your opinion of them?

Engkanto · June 30th, 2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn

INCREDIBLE N AMAZING SHOT! ... was this a frame by frame shot of a video ? or did you capture it with a still shot camera?

The Brazilians take a lot of work for grading... they hve to be grade down to 1/8 so i have not tried it yet. i am now moving towards using the japs and rampuri to make grades because some of them can be used at 50% and at 1/4 practically all of them can be used for fighting.

Thanks for the kind words Glenn. No, it's not from a video. That was a picture I took using a Digital SLR camera (Nikon D3100). I'm not really tech savvy, but I think the continuous shot capability of my camera helps me capture some 'live' action (something like 3 frames per second, I think, hehehe...).

Good luck with your Japs and Rampuri grading. I read a lot of good things about these Rampuris. Of course, we all know how successful Jim Clem is with his Jap grades. Looks like you're adding some seasoning to your Black Calamays, hehehe... Speaking of calamay (I mean the real native delicacy), I'm starting to miss those calamays from Bohol, my mom's home province.

jam671 · June 30th, 2012, 11:22 AM

nice photo, but it looks like the baby on top is right legged dominant.
Might need to put a right leg knife for his when he reaches age to pit.

cnucum · June 30th, 2012, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn

According to Paeng, he got them from Nene Abello...who apparently got them from Carol NeSmith...
Interestingly, one of the last interviews that my good friend, the late Emoy Gorgonia did before he met his demise was of Nene Abello. And in that interview, Emoy mentioned to me that off the record, Nene confided to him that the very first set of Sweaters that won them the World Slashers in the 1990's had 1/8th asil blood in them...
And, in retrospect... i remember the very first Sweaters that were sold out of Nene Abello's farm that were purchased by my then-breeding partner Alvin Ong/Lim had very peculiar scale patterns similar to those that you see on ASils/orientals and their grades... so i would not discount the idea that Sweaters have some Oriental infusions in them...(how else did they get so tall in the first place)
Not trying to create a stir...but im sure this will raise some hackles..

Idol Glenn, I think you just did... stir a hornets nest... there goes the sweater neighborhood...

I guess it won't be a stretch when I would say that a drop of oriental on the "new sweaters" will help them...

Glad your moving towards japs and rampuris... I have both but different source... now I really have to meet you one of these days... hehehe

Engkanto · June 30th, 2012, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shanebo

After a little chicken talk with Glenn and Draven a few weeks ago I have started to frequent your guys thread here on Asils, might have got bitten by the Asil bug... Engkanto, I really enjoy those photos of the Cubans you post....This photo is really nice for sure!!!

Thanks shanebo. I think Mr. Tiny called this 'sickness' Asilitis, hehehe... I got infected with Asil bug way back in the early 90s while still there in PI. When I read about how some of Atong Ang's ugly looking asils won in the derbies, I started doing some research about them and was so impressed on what I learned about the breed. I searched for reliable local breeders and the name of Mr. Serge Capistrano came up. Got my start with Boles grades from Mr. Serge (his farm was still in Muntinglupa at that time) but eventually lost them due to my work. So when I got here in the US, those were the first birds that I searched for.

Welcome aboard, lol...

Engkanto · June 30th, 2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jam671

nice photo, but it looks like the baby on top is right legged dominant.
Might need to put a right leg knife for his when he reaches age to pit.

Thanks jam671.

I don't know if he is right legged. Maybe my camera was just slow to capture the other frames, lol... Or maybe you're also correct. These bloodline was bred for American type of show many years back and it didn't make any difference if they are right or left legged. They put gaffs on both legs, of course, when this sport was still legal.

Thanks again.

glenn · June 30th, 2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Engkanto

Thanks for the kind words Glenn. No, it's not from a video. That was a picture I took using a Digital SLR camera (Nikon D3100). I'm not really tech savvy, but I think the continuous shot capability of my camera helps me capture some 'live' action (something like 3 frames per second, I think, hehehe...).

Good luck with your Japs and Rampuri grading. I read a lot of good things about these Rampuris. Of course, we all know how successful Jim Clem is with his Jap grades. Looks like you're adding some seasoning to your Black Calamays, hehehe... Speaking of calamay (I mean the real native delicacy), I'm starting to miss those calamays from Bohol, my mom's home province.

The Calamays are still my bread n butter when it comes to hacks... although i will be fielding a full show of them in the up coming stag derbies.
By the way, i am also of Boholano descent.. my father was born in Tagbilaran.
My grandfather is LIM POH....my great-grandfather is LIM CUA(baba yap and i share the same great-grandfather)

glenn · June 30th, 2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Good Game

Glenn what are your thoughts reguarding Orlando's rampuri blood? If i remember correctly Wally was not to keen about them. Now that some of the grades are older what is your opinion of them?

i have not fought any of the offsprings so i wont be able to assess them until i do but so far they tend to produce less bulky, quick moving stags at half-blood... and judging from the way they spar, i think they have plenty potential.
The ones that my brother Wally bred before the Rampuri broodcock was sent over to the PHil. look really good....but then again, they have to be tested in the pit.

glenn · June 30th, 2012, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnucum

Idol Glenn, I think you just did... stir a hornets nest... there goes the sweater neighborhood... I guess it won't be a stretch when I would say that a drop of oriental on the "new sweaters" will help them...

Something to "sweat' about hehehe..

cnucum · June 30th, 2012, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn

i have not fought any of the offsprings so i wont be able to assess them until i do but so far they tend to produce less bulky, quick moving stags at half-blood... and judging from the way they spar, i think they have plenty potential.
The ones that my brother Wally bred before the Rampuri broodcock was sent over to the PHil. look really good....but then again, they have to be tested in the pit.

Idol Glenn, the 1/2 rampuri's as stags to bullstag are still "quick", but as they molt out again as cocks, they tend to be one step slower (related to me by tonio before also). And they tend to bulk up more too. The 1/4 rampuri were the best overall, station, speed, body and cut still very apparent... even 1/2 and 1/4 rampuri are early maturing to fight as stags. Just my personal experience with the rampuri's I have for 4 years now...

jdelacruz · June 30th, 2012, 08:12 PM

my 1/4 rampuri grade..quick and deliberate..

greydom vs. rampuri grade - YouTube

glenn · July 1st, 2012, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnucum

Idol Glenn, the 1/2 rampuri's as stags to bullstag are still "quick", but as they molt out again as cocks, they tend to be one step slower (related to me by tonio before also). And they tend to bulk up more too. The 1/4 rampuri were the best overall, station, speed, body and cut still very apparent... even 1/2 and 1/4 rampuri are early maturing to fight as stags. Just my personal experience with the rampuri's I have for 4 years now...

Thanks Chris, in comparison to the Brazilians....the Rampuris and japs are much faster at half-blood...and less coarse... The Brazilian needs to be watered down to 1/8....but incredibly at this percentage...they still retain the supreme cutting.. Thats one of the reasons why i have not gotten rid of them. The Brazilians also has another trait that i have not seen in my other grades... At 1/4 they will produce 1 in 100 stags, a specimen that can break bones.... In fact, i had one that i sold to Roy Go(owner of Ogis Lechon Manok) that with gloves on.... punctured the skull of a sweater cock on the second break...of course it helped that he had sharp spurs measuring an inch or so... but it was covered with sparring gloves... In my breeding the Brazilians for almost 11yrs now, i have only encountered two individuals that could actually break bones when sparred.

blades61 · July 1st, 2012, 12:25 AM

i have some black jap a pair a boles hen and a half judge lacy half gator creek cobra asil i want to breed the two hens to the pure jap then breed the pullets to one of my lacy cocks just to see what comes out the more i play with these orientals the more i like em

Dark Rooster · July 1st, 2012, 02:45 AM

I'm just starting with orientals as well, and I really like them so far. It really helps knowing someone to steer me in the right direction when breeding grades.

YFIS.

Darkside · July 1st, 2012, 08:12 AM

my half asils x melsim brownred

swine herdman · July 1st, 2012, 11:07 AM

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http://multiply.com/mu/lhgamebirds/i...nmid=562609006

blue rndhd asil/gull and blue rndhd asil/oakgrove hatch

cnucum · July 3rd, 2012, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn

Thanks Chris, in comparison to the Brazilians....the Rampuris and japs are much faster at half-blood...and less coarse... The Brazilian needs to be watered down to 1/8....but incredibly at this percentage...they still retain the supreme cutting.. Thats one of the reasons why i have not gotten rid of them. The Brazilians also has another trait that i have not seen in my other grades... At 1/4 they will produce 1 in 100 stags, a specimen that can break bones.... In fact, i had one that i sold to Roy Go(owner of Ogis Lechon Manok) that with gloves on.... punctured the skull of a sweater cock on the second break...of course it helped that he had sharp spurs measuring an inch or so... but it was covered with sparring gloves... In my breeding the Brazilians for almost 11yrs now, i have only encountered two individuals that could actually break bones when sparred.

Idol Glenn, 11 years, wow! I hope I keep my rampuris and japs that long also... Those brazilian grades are monsters! Your right, 1/2 blood on the rampuri or japs are faster and less coarse...

This is a 1/2 Jap 1/2 Mcrae bullstag fought last friday @ SJC...

jap-mcrae bullstag WIN @ SJC - YouTube

They can win as half blood but as with the rampuri and as fought by sir jim clem, they will be better as quarters...

competitor · July 3rd, 2012, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnucum

Idol Glenn, 11 years, wow! I hope I keep my rampuris and japs that long also... Those brazilian grades are monsters! Your right, 1/2 blood on the rampuri or japs are faster and less coarse...

This is a 1/2 Jap 1/2 Mcrae bullstag fought last friday @ SJC...

jap-mcrae bullstag WIN @ SJC - YouTube

They can win as half blood but as with the rampuri and as fought by sir jim clem, they will be better as quarters...

Pre Chris,is his father the 2nd stag i sent you?...the reddish one that has a built like a tank?....CONGRATS PRE!

glenn · July 3rd, 2012, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnucum

Idol Glenn, 11 years, wow! I hope I keep my rampuris and japs that long also... Those brazilian grades are monsters! Your right, 1/2 blood on the rampuri or japs are faster and less coarse...

This is a 1/2 Jap 1/2 Mcrae bullstag fought last friday @ SJC...

They can win as half blood but as with the rampuri and as fought by sir jim clem, they will be better as quarters...

Hi Chris, i wish you would just address me as bai Glenn or pare.... i dont deserve the "idol" reference...
I agree with you though, that the half-bloods can win but they would be much better as quarters.
all the best to your breeding .

cnucum · July 3rd, 2012, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by competitor

Pre Chris,is his father the 2nd stag i sent you?...the reddish one that has a built like a tank?....CONGRATS PRE!

Yes pre, he is from that cock... Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn

Hi Chris, i wish you would just address me as bai Glenn or pare.... i dont deserve the "idol" reference...
I agree with you though, that the half-bloods can win but they would be much better as quarters.
all the best to your breeding .

Bai Glenn, you deserve that accolade especially in terms of your work with oriental grades...

Will you be fighting some of your grades in upcoming SK fights if any? regards...

Engkanto · July 3rd, 2012, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blades61

i have some black jap a pair a boles hen and a half judge lacy half gator creek cobra asil i want to breed the two hens to the pure jap then breed the pullets to one of my lacy cocks just to see what comes out the more i play with these orientals the more i like em

Blades61, I'm with you. The more I play with different blends, the more I appreciate the benefits of grading. I've tried the same thing, Asil/Jap and Lacy/Jap blends. The grades, especially the Jap grades, always throw good stationed offsprings with sleek and more slender body conformation compared with Asil grades. They are quicker and move better also. The Jap grades are more late maturing than Asil grades though.

A few pictures of my Asil-Jap blends:

Asil/Japs full nest siblings

1/2 Lacy RH 1/2 Black Jap stag