Brother - Sister mating update. - Sabong, Cockfighting and Gamefowl Posting Pit

RayBoles · January 25th, 2007, 04:06 AM

It has now been two or three years that I posted my method of breeding brother to sister and line breeding from there. I would like to know if any have tried it and what was their outcome.

radz06 · January 25th, 2007, 04:36 AM

Too many negative feed backs so I didn't even try...I'm sure it will works but I'm not into heavy culling which I'm sure it will require to select the best.

mfuentebella · January 25th, 2007, 04:50 AM

We've tried it on our hatch line, we're on our first mating so far and from the results from it i may say that i'm happy with the outcome. Tall stations and well built stags and pullets, but with experience and just my 69 cents opinion i wouldnt go more than 2 matings. Coz after that we find them becoming to the size of bantam chickens. Just my 69 cents guys, take care and god bless.......JAKE

January 25th, 2007, 06:45 AM

My experience on brother and sister mating is that the fighting style of the offsprings absolutely copies as to that of their parents, if they are early maturing they fight at the age of 3 months old and if they are late maturing they fight at bullstag stage and yet sometimes run but upon reaching the age of 2 or more he never quits a fight, this late maturing one's comes better as they grow older and the fighting style changes and they became more heady or smarter and the cutting was more accurate and win more than the early maturing one's....they are very cautious and don't want to get hit.

A continous brother and sister mating affects the height of the legs and goes smaller and smaller though the body conformation was still the same except when they are infected badly by a disease and body conformation remains thin until he grow old, he passes this thin body conformation to it's offsprings, but the fighting style was still the same but the endurance was lessen and sometimes called dunghill because if he feels tired he runs away.

If the baseline bloodline don't have a good immunity on it's surroundings the mortality rate record was bad....the bloodline should have the ability to regulate the body temperature according to the seasons that we have here in the Philippines.

On my observation if they have good immune system they have the opportunity to survive and win lots of fight.

As you go deeper on brother x sister mating....if they are outcross to other bloodline the male offsprings copies the looks of the father from head to toe and same to its kind of fighting style.

My purpose of brother x sister mating was to shorten the locking of the genes until set as new strain...if deformities occurs that's the time to stop and go downgrade breeding by selecting on his close relatives....sometimes early showing of deformities if the broodmaterials most especially the hen experience a disease.

January 25th, 2007, 06:51 AM

I tried this method also. For me its how you
select your fowl if you try this method.
you have 2 selections, The Good and The Bad.

Saknong · January 25th, 2007, 07:27 AM

The offspring from my brother/sister mated sweater have good station and body conformation. I fought 3 as stags. One wins in 12 seconds (but died too) and 2 lose (so so performance). One offspring, a very good loking ponkan/lasak (throwback) was good when I sparred him at 6-7 months but he sulked when I sparred him at 10 months. Too bad because I intend to use it for 2nd bro/sis mating hoping to produce pyle sweaters.

Nevertheless, still went ahead with the 2nd bro/sis mating using the best looking offspring of the 1st mating (not the pyle).

timiboy420 · January 25th, 2007, 02:19 PM

Hi Proffessor
I'm in the 2nd stage of inbreeding I,m happy with the result magnificent my friends asked me if i linebred this bird,i told him yes 3/4 father side & 1/4 mother side but actually this is the result of 2nd Gen. inbreeding.One of the least among brothers i fought it last month Dec.25 won unscratched 2nd fight, this one contribute to become a champion. I fight the least because I keep the best for breeding, I have notice that one stag magnify the timing fighting style & the 3 bros. are vertical flyer. Ray the fighting style of the grandfather is the combination of timing & vertical flyer but now this 2nd Gen. the timing fighting style confine to one of the stag the rest are all vertical flyer. I have notice also that one of the pullet is odd looking & straight comb the 2 pullet look the same & peacomb.
I don,t cull the odd looking pullet but I bred her to his timing fighting style bros.
My 2nd Gen. Inbreeding station is affected the stag is shorter compare to the grandfather,the feather is not healthy not shiny & one of the pullet is sterile.

serge · January 25th, 2007, 02:48 PM

I tried it once with my HATCH-LEMON CROSS 2x winner and was able to produce 2 males and 3 females. It's now 11 months old one is a manfighter and I'm planning to test their skills in hackfight this coming february and see if they can follow their father footstep !!!

SERGE

darkfowl · January 25th, 2007, 03:46 PM

I'm on my third generation of brother and sister mating now, every year my stags get better and better with their fighting style and phenotypes. I've tested the second generation stag last october at the big dome, it won against a bigtime breeder. Now I'll test my 3rd generation brod sis mating at the KGBA circuit and the bakbakan 9stag.. I believe that they can already fight the best of breeder's because of their identical lateral movements, breaks, power and multiple strokes.. They are 3/4 hatch stags, straight and peacomb family... I will test their father and uncles of the first generation at the 10.5M 8cock derby by March-April 2007... Best regards! there is no harm on inbreeding as long as you choose the best stags on each generation and breed it his best looking sister..

CrookedToe · January 25th, 2007, 03:51 PM

I have tried this to my hatch / black line I only produced 6 hens the first season (last) but I bred father to daughter this season and I only produced 2 chicks.

darkfowl · January 25th, 2007, 04:09 PM

Crooked toe,

My first generation produced 40stags, 2nd generation 24stags, this breeding season 100chicks and 400eggs inside the incubators.. By May i'll know how many stags will come out but my estimate is around 130stags more or less.. all these came from the brod x sis mating of the second generation and I' willing to go further the coming years..

January 26th, 2007, 08:33 AM

Ray, I have had fair results with the albanys I mated bro/sis after our discussion here. Two of them won in the first fly last year as bull stags, in the gaff. They are being prepared for a 6 cock derby at the Bayou in march.
I also mated one of the inbred albany pullets with a sweater bullstag I got from Chris NeSmith. They haven't been shown yet but 4 of them are also being prepared for the Bayou. They look promising.

I like the results of the inbred albanys so much that I plan on mating a couple pairs of my robinhoods bro/sis this spring. As a back up, I'm also line breeding them back to the cocks side and also infusing new blood into them.

Thanks for giving me the confidence to try something that's seen as a no-no here. I look at the bro/sis mating idea as another "weapon" in my breeding scheme. yfis, Scott

January 26th, 2007, 11:00 PM

Mr. Ray Boles..

Please post your feedback on people's comments. Does it really affect their size and legs etc?
I posted your article on ganoi.com a few weeks ago. It will be half way down the first page and then people's comments...

http://www.ganoi.com/truongga/viewtopic.php?t=5564

Please post your comment their as well if you wish.

The thing is that I have acquired a great line of brazilians. 2 pairs but they are brothers and sisters. Well I am left with no choice but to breed them together....any assurance or tips would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you for your kind attention.

cnucum · October 20th, 2007, 08:10 PM

anyone else who tried mr. rays method since he posted his inbreeding scheme a few years back? any info will be highly appreciated...

cnucum · November 19th, 2007, 01:01 PM

well, anybody?

nagasaki red · November 19th, 2007, 04:12 PM

Nice thread from mr. boles

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rmndafable · November 19th, 2007, 04:20 PM

Use blue face can withstand extreme inbreeding

ugis1 · November 19th, 2007, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayBoles

It has now been two or three years that I posted my method of breeding brother to sister and line breeding from there. I would like to know if any have tried it and what was their outcome.

ive been line breeding my hatches before.i tried bro and sis mating.f1s are good.winning above ave.f2s are smaller now!i stopped!

johhny · November 19th, 2007, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkfowl

I'm on my third generation of brother and sister mating now, every year my stags get better and better with their fighting style and phenotypes. I've tested the second generation stag last october at the big dome, it won against a bigtime breeder. Now I'll test my 3rd generation brod sis mating at the KGBA circuit and the bakbakan 9stag.. I believe that they can already fight the best of breeder's because of their identical lateral movements, breaks, power and multiple strokes.. They are 3/4 hatch stags, straight and peacomb family... I will test their father and uncles of the first generation at the 10.5M 8cock derby by March-April 2007... Best regards! there is no harm on inbreeding as long as you choose the best stags on each generation and breed it his best looking sister..

sir do you have scheme or a flowchart sample sa iyong in-breeding program? curious lang kc ako pano ginagawa un , ive never done it before pa 3 years napo ako nag breeding takot kc ako baka hindi maganda ang kalalabasan nito, baka mag expirement po ako ......
thnx in advance.....my email ad is ......... jdelvinia@gmail.com
******************Godbless*******************8

November 20th, 2007, 12:37 AM

I have been inbreeding my (H.Pinnon) yellow leg hatches for a few years already.All of the offsprings comeout to be exelent cutters but they lack of power.I carefully select the ones I will use for breeding and I cross them with another line that has speed and power and I get some of the best fowl that I have in my yard.Here is a picture of one of my hens who's parents are brother and sister

November 20th, 2007, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by junebug32

I have been inbreeding my (H.Pinnon) yellow leg hatches for a few years already.All of the offsprings comeout to be exelent cutters but they lack of power.I carefully select the ones I will use for breeding and I cross them with another line that has speed and power and I get some of the best fowl that I have in my yard.Here is a picture of one of my hens who's parents are brother and sisterhttp://i225.photobucket.com/albums/d...g?t=1195494093

Here is a son of the hen above.He is already crossed with a sweater.

cnucum · January 17th, 2008, 03:08 PM

has anyone done any bro-sis pairing this breeding season?

BananaCamp · January 18th, 2008, 11:56 AM

I started out my BS mating with a Kelso Claret cross. They started off small but were good honest, consistent fighting family. I always had one or two spangle hens in each of the years of BS mating and so I used a spangle hen each time. I never had a spangle rooster other than the white in the wings, tail, and under their hackles. I made sure the rooster I selected for my BS mating had good temperament, being how close they were being bred. They were still small and had real nice plumage and still was easy to handle as stags. I bred my third generation stag to a sweater hen from Red Hat…they came out higher station and better body conformation…I like’um...they came out the way I thought they would....but, I lost my third generation bull stag in the molt due to respiratory disease…I’m line breeding the stag pictured in my gallery back to my third generation spangle hen this breeding season….this all came about from reading Ray's breeding program and finding out for myself....thanks Ray

http://sabong.net.ph/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/73535/cat/500/ppuser/337

Alohas

zenmarius · August 4th, 2009, 11:39 AM

to breeders that have tried and still are doing this method shown by Ray, any more results from your breeding program. old and new breeders?

cnucum · August 4th, 2009, 11:57 AM

I have not been doing full-sib mating, but I have been doing father-daughter mating which in "genetics" has the same intensity of inbreeding.

So far I am at the 7/8th of the original cock and none of the (11) fowls now have any defects, in fact they are the healthiest bunch I got...

pullets (black ones only)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...r/Image025.jpg

stags

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Image002-1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...r/Image008.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...r/Image016.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Image006-1.jpg

In a few months I will be shooting for some 15/16's and I am confident that no adverse effects will appear as none of the pullets and the cock has any defects.

To my surprise each generation, they seem to get more "robust, healthier and survive better" as I use only 2 of the best pullets to breed back to the original cock and there is a huge increase in the hatching and survivabilty each generation...

Chris

colt39 · August 4th, 2009, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnucum

I have not been doing full-sib mating, but I have been doing father-daughter mating which in "genetics" has the same intensity of inbreeding.

So far I am at the 7/8th of the original cock and none of the (11) fowls now have any defects, in fact they are the healthiest bunch I got...

pullets (black ones only)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...r/Image025.jpg

stags

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Image002-1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...r/Image008.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...r/Image016.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Image006-1.jpg

In a few months I will be shooting for some 15/16's and I am confident that no adverse effects will appear as none of the pullets and the cock has any defects.

To my surprise each generation, they seem to get more "robust, healthier and survive better" as I use only 2 of the best pullets to breed back to the original cock and there is a huge increase in the hatching and survivabilty each generation...

Chris

Are they going back to the Rampuri side? They are looking uniform & will be even more uniform at 15/16. Imagin trying to get them that uniform by bro/sis mateing in that lenth of time.

cnucum · August 4th, 2009, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colt39

Are they going back to the Rampuri side? They are looking uniform & will be even more uniform at 15/16. Imagin trying to get them that uniform by bro/sis mateing in that lenth of time.

Hey sir Jim, whats up?

Yes they are bred back to the original Black Rampuri Asil... Yup they are becoming more and more uniform and as I said above they seem to have better health and breedability each generation... Seems like I am doing something right or this blood really can take inbreeding...

I will start using them this season as brood fowls, looks like I am on the right track... I remember your breeding lessons in breeding back to an exceptional fowl and using the result as brood for battle fowls...

Seems I got "MY OWN" Black Rampuri Asil Line in the making... I hope so...

thanks and regards,

Chris

Mudflop · August 4th, 2009, 01:31 PM

This is the first season that I am trying brother/sister mating. First I was testing a cross of mug with Mel Sims Blacks. Tried 50-50 and did not fancy them as much. Tried 3/4 MS 1/4 Mug and that did not suit me. Tried 7/8 both ways and still did not like them. Tried a 3/4 Mug 1/4 MS cross and they were what I was looking for. Got 4 stags and one pullet. Three stags came strait comb and one P/C. Pullet is a very nice P/C. P/C stag is an exceptional performer. Good qualities. However, I selected the tallest S/C stag with the looks and temperment I liked most and bred him to the P/C sister.

My question is do I take another B/S from the offspring and mate them again next season or do I line breeding mother to best son with best charecteristics and Father to daughter? I think it would be easier and shorter do go back to selecting the best B and S again. What would you recommend RB?

hatchkill · August 4th, 2009, 01:53 PM

This year I'm breeding my asils full brother to full sister mating have not hatched any yet but will let you guys know how they turn out. I expect good because I read some were I belive in a spanish book written by Raphael Manas Pedromo were he stated that asils if from good stock can wistand more intence inbreeding than any king of bird. as I write this tread I can honestly state that my birds feel better every year I breed them as a closed family, but have never bred brother to sister. I just can't wait for them chick to hatch and raise them to maturity and see what gives. Wish me luck boys,yfis dan

competitor · August 4th, 2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cnucum

I have not been doing full-sib mating, but I have been doing father-daughter mating which in "genetics" has the same intensity of inbreeding.

So far I am at the 7/8th of the original cock and none of the (11) fowls now have any defects, in fact they are the healthiest bunch I got...

pullets (black ones only)

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...r/Image025.jpg

stags

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Image002-1.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...r/Image008.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...r/Image016.jpg

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a2...Image006-1.jpg

In a few months I will be shooting for some 15/16's and I am confident that no adverse effects will appear as none of the pullets and the cock has any defects.

To my surprise each generation, they seem to get more "robust, healthier and survive better" as I use only 2 of the best pullets to breed back to the original cock and there is a huge increase in the hatching and survivabilty each generation...

Chris

HMMMMMMN....LOOKS LIKE I GOT A LOT TO CHOOSE FROM PRE.....HE!HE!HE!....

WELL DONE,KEEP IT UP!!!...