Jim Clem Orientals

[KNIFEROOSTER]

I needed feedback about, Mr Clem Orientals , Black Japs, and Asils.
Thanks!.

[bogoy]

THIS IS JIM CLEM BROWN RED WITH ORIENTALS BLOOD LINE

You can get same quality for way, way cheaper with other breeders.... JMPO

[pogipoint]

ask pitgods

[badylh]

You May Get Them Cheaper But The Quality Not A Chance. I Don't Know A Single Breeder That Sells The Same Type Of Japs. The Clem Japs Are Proven And I Have Seen No Equal

ok badylh,
No disrespect to Jim, but ask Jim when was the last time he fought them pure in gaff, SK, or LK and won with them in major competition? .... Certainly, his crosses are of good quality, I won't argue that .... Seems you know a lot of oriental breeders here in the US dadylh .... I'm gonna have to ask u when was the last time u fought Jim's pure japs here in the US since you speak so high about them?.... If I say you can find cheaper and as good as Jim's, that is because I've seen them and u can get them for better price.... Now, if ur willing to pay such price from Jim's, go ahead. I'm not here to discredit Jim's fowl, nor to stop people from buying his fowl either.... I just wanna clarify this, there are other breeders here in the US besides Jim that breed orientals as good as his, and u can get them from way chapper.... JMPO....

[brownred30]

Chickens were not made to be fought pure, nobody fights orientals pure with good success let alone in the L/K.

[brownred30]

Vakeroo could you please name someone that shows pure orientals and does good with them, since you should know.

Originally Posted by brownred30

Chickens were not made to be fought pure, nobody fights orientals pure with good success let alone in the L/K.

Brownred30,

That is your own opinion on the subject.... which is not the subject on this thread.... But if u insist, based on my experience, if a bloodline can't compete pure, there is no reason to keep it.... Next point.... How can u say there is nobody who fights pure orientals, can't prove that??? If so, I wanna hear where u fight ur chickens.... lol .... I seen them pure ones fight and win in major competition.... Now, if you say that based on your experience, then you need to keep on fighting more chickens to get more experience.... By the way, it is easier for an oriental bloodline fight pure in LK than in any other steel weapon.... JMO .... And back to the subject of this thread, I seen Jim's orientals, and I can say you can find as good as his for cheaper.... MPO....

Originally Posted by brownred30

Vakeroo could you please name someone that shows pure orientals and does good with them, since you should know.

I will respect their will to not post their names, but u can message me and I will share info with u.... or you can visit the big pits, u will see them there for sure....

[brownred30]

Ok. Let me give you an example I have been watching all the World Slasher Cup dvds since about 2005 and I have not seen any and I repeat any good pure orientals fight in those dvd's. You said they are best in l/k and if there would be such good asils as you claim why are there none being fought? You are obviously trying to discredit Jim's orientals. Why would he want to show pure chickens if when they are crossed they are better, once again bro pure chickens are made for breeding not for fighting.

I got JIM CLEMs pures and crosses, and other pure JAPS from other breeder (Floyd Gurley and Jackie Rogers). Last month just to try his gameness and cutting prowness i fought my 1 -year old pure import JAP and won untouched against a prominent cocker. The pure black JAP was very fast and smoking.

I got 4 hens and 2 brood cocks from JIM. 2-1/2JAP- 1/2 Brown Red hens , and 2- 3/4Brown Red-1/4JAP hens, 1 pure Red JAP, 1 pure Brown Red cocks. The offspring of the battles cross trio from JIM is good but not WSD materials. But when i crossed the pure RED JAP over DInk sweater hens they are very very good and maybe better at 1/4 which i will try next year for further evaluation. When i also bred the 1/2JAP-1/2Brown Red hens with my pure Black Mcrae from Irving Wong,Hawaii they produced outstanding stags but not yet proven in the pit. Very good in cutting and wise player. Similar to my sweater killers( JAP-DINK crosses). For info only and not for debates....

well that`s very interesting
crossing them to dink fair sweater

what is the shank color of the offsprings?
yellow with black stints?
feather color?

Originally Posted by JAPSIL

I got JIM CLEMs pures and crosses, and other pure JAPS from other breeder (Floyd Gurley and Jackie Rogers). Last month just to try his gameness and cutting prowness i fought my 1 -year old pure import JAP and won untouched against a prominent cocker. The pure black JAP was very fast and smoking.

I got 4 hens and 2 brood cocks from JIM. 2-1/2JAP- 1/2 Brown Red hens , and 2- 3/4Brown Red-1/4JAP hens, 1 pure Red JAP, 1 pure Brown Red cocks. The offspring of the battles cross trio from JIM is good but not WSD materials. But when i crossed the pure RED JAP over DInk sweater hens they are very very good and maybe better at 1/4 which i will try next year for further evaluation. When i also bred the 1/2JAP-1/2Brown Red hens with my pure Black Mcrae from Irving Wong,Hawaii they produced outstanding stags but not yet proven in the pit. Very good in cutting and wise player. Similar to my sweater killers( JAP-DINK crosses). For info only and not for debates....

Originally Posted by expressdelivery

well that`s very interesting
crossing them to dink fair sweater

what is the shank color of the offsprings?
yellow with black stints?
feather color?

Out of the 7 stags-cocks 2 are ponkam red orange typical sweater look with big heads very nice station, yellow legs, nice body, the rest are dark red with clean yellow legs. Only 1 lost but gave a good fight. 2 winners are untouched and the rest have died from injuries. Typically they are mid-air killers hitting under the wings of the opponents.

[colt39]

Well, just to set the record straight.

These Asils are not ment to be fought pure. They are pretty slow.

How ever, I think that people play with them to get that right Grade that can compete anywhere. Take just enough smarts & cut & ad it to game & speed & you have a pretty hard to whip bird if graded right.

I don't ever recall a pure Asil being fought in any weapon, anywhere & I have been to HI, KY, OK, AZ in the big pits as well as the small ones. That is not to say it does not happen, I have just never seen it.

Now, the Black Japs are fast & very crafty & can win pure & it has been done. Not by me but they have competed pure.

One more thing,

Sam Gowdy told me about a year before he pasted away that if I ever wanted to get any blood to freshin my up with, he only recomended 2 people to get them from. One being Mr Shropshire (Spelling ? ) & a friend there in Colorado. I contacted them both & got two pullets from Shropshire & did not like the results so I destroyed them. I then was told that the friend, I can't spell his name so I will just leave it as his friend. Anyhow, I was told that the friend in Colorado got his from Shropshire & not direct from Sam because when they raided Sam's place they confiscated all the fowl & destroyed them. One day, I will find out.

Now, Mr Shropshire has past away, so I am told as well.

Anayways, there are plenty of breeders that have good Asil fowl but not many that have these Black Japs.

I hear from people in PI that have graded these Japs & did very well with them. You will see some in the WSD one day, I am sure of that.

i still have in possession
the brownred-japs broodcock
that jim sent me
he moves fast back and forth on the ground
medium breaker
and more on fast salto style
his aerial climb mostly diagonal
i am now more on breeding other stocks
that goes up vertically

i am thinking now
if i would breed jim`s brownred -japs broodcock
to bulik apatot hens
both are fast salto fighters

the cock jim sent me
is only medium station
but have fantastic round body

[colt39]

JAPSIL, how r u? Express., how r u as well.

Yes, they are deep body punchers, hitting under the wing then it is over.

that`s very interesting that jim`s cock
didn`t leave any imprint to his male offsprings
the dink sweater hen you used tells something

Originally Posted by JAPSIL

Out of the 7 stags-cocks 2 are ponkam red orange typical sweater look with big heads very nice station, yellow legs, nice body, the rest are dark red with clean yellow legs. Only 1 lost but gave a good fight. 2 winners are untouched and the rest have died from injuries. Typically they are mid-air killers hitting under the wings of the opponents.

[jemayku]

Hey Jim, The Roundheads and the Wheaton are doing great I will try to breed this coming breeding season your Roundheads to Albany and Wheaton to My Kelso's. yfis Jeff.

Sir JAPSIL,
Do you have pictures of them, if you have kindly post it here.

i`m fine jim,hope you`re doing well too my friend.
i am still looking for the right best combination
to your brownred-japs .

i bred the hens you sent
to michael middleton`s kelso cock
but i think the kelso pulled out the needed speed
from your japs-brownred
they acquired bulk/mass from kelso side

i asked middleton
if he infused asil blood in his kelso
he said..........nope
hehehe
that kelso give a real hard wallops
but i neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeddddddddddd
lots of speeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedddddddd

Originally Posted by colt39

JAPSIL, how r u? Express., how r u as well.

Yes, they are deep body punchers, hitting under the wing then it is over.

[colt39]

Yep, I don't cross them with anything that lacks in speed. The Japs are fast but, fast for Orientals.

I have been crossing the Japs with My Blacks to get the station I like.

Here is a pic of a 1/2 Black & 1/2 Black Jap. Very fast smart vertical type of style. Used one of these 1/2 & 1/2s for a brood cock, over pure Brownred hens & they are very good looking birds with lots of station.

[jemayku]

Jim, Please check yoru PM. thanks

Hello Jim,

How things r going? I hope u, ur customers, or advertisers, don't get hurt for what I said..... I know you set prices according to how you value ur fowl, which I don't have a prob with that.... some feathers in my yard I wouldn't exchange them for a Monica Lowinsky's best performance ..... reason I said this is 'cause I've see ur fowl and I think they're good, I seen them when u showed some fowl with Clinis, which it wasn't a good show that time, also in NM pits with average results ..... Now, I have to disagree when u said asils r not meant to fight pure..... They fight better crossed, I'm not gonna argue that..... but there r some pures bloodlines that show just as good as crossed.... just gotta visit other states and maybe sum other countries so u get to see'em.... maybe some traveling would open some non believer's eyes..... Not only in PI and US people show birds.... oh please Jim, don't take it personal when I said anybody can find 'em as good as urs for cheaper..... I was just been honest....

Jim, maybe u can explain more to these guys the qualities of ur orientals and how u use 'em, since they'r so interested..... or u could start a new thread expanding some info in sum oriental breeding techniques in ur farm and the use of them in ur speed fowl for improvements.... nothin like hearing it from the horses mouth.... JMHO

Japs Japs Japs...Asils Asils Asils...never seen anybody took the plunge in the LK money fights with such fowls and took the trophy home.At the end we will wonder why Sonny Lagon and Nene Abello still cling to their bread and butter.But an entry from Cebu scored 6-2 with their Brazilian grades 2 years back in the WSD.
Japs vs Asil vs Brazilian... Armando D. of Mission Texas has good short knife Brazilian crosses.

[colt39]

vakeroo

No, I did not take it personal or get offended by your statement. I also dout you will hurt any future costomers by this either. That is your opinion & you have a right to it.

Anyhow, like I said, there are a few good Asils out there & good breeders that may sell them. My only point is to get the true Gowdy Japs, I gave you the advice from the man him self.

Also, the Jap crosses Clinis had, they had them so wet that they could hardly move untill later in the afternoon. He then knocked the Taggetts out of going 6 straight & winning the derby. No fowl can preform at a level that wins derbys when full of moisture. No excusses, just facts of the day.

I have never been to NM either. They mostly were shown in Copperstate & did well with them. That is the only place they have been shown in LK besides PI. So, I will be willing to bet that the only average result you have ever seen these Japs was one time in SB in SK.

I will give my opinions on grading Orientals, (Japs or Asils) & answer any questions if anybody has any, in this thread.

tiririt, I agree.

You may never see Orientals win one of the big ones in PI but it does not hurt to try. More & more people are getting involved in Orientals. Time will tell weather or not they can stay with the competition. I do know that the right grade can do really well in PI because their main competition is Sweaters. You guys find the right grade & the chances of winning the big ones improve a lot.

As far as reports from PI, my Roundheads are winning a very high % along with the Greys & the Jap cross are behind them but I think that it takes a while longer to breed Orientals & get them where you want them. Some never end up liking them. Roundheads, you can throw them in a pen & in 2 years, you are ready for all takers. Orientals, have to be graded to perfection. Also, you may have tried to grade them with the wrong Western fowl & don't like them either.

The main thing that some like is this. When you finally find the right Nick with Orientals, they are very hard to whip & you did it all by your self. Also, nobody has them but you either. Sweaters are everywhere but you are the only one that has that grade that they can not figure out how to whip.

So, give it a few years & we will just see weather or not the Oriental Grades can win in the big time or not. I think you will be supprised.

Originally Posted by bogoy

THIS IS JIM CLEM BROWN RED WITH ORIENTALS BLOOD LINE

bogoy??>?>? thats a pure brownred i know because i bought him from jim i have him as a brood cock

[brownred30]

The only thing you can fight pure orientals in is in the naked heel. LOL

[colt39]

aterr21

You are right, that is a pure Brownred, the one I shipped you.

Brownred30, I agree. you put a full show of pure Asils in the WSD, I bet you will loose every one. They are just not suited for that.

Originally Posted by colt39

aterr21

You are right, that is a pure Brownred, the one I shipped you.

Brownred30, I agree. you put a full show of pure Asils in the WSD, I bet you will loose every one. They are just not suited for that.

hello jim we just won the a derby this past weekend in mex coahuila and about 2 months ago we also won the copa tecate in mexico also using your roundheads pure and brownred japs i will be calling you this fall for some more trios

Originally Posted by colt39

JAPSIL, how r u? Express., how r u as well.

Yes, they are deep body punchers, hitting under the wing then it is over.

Hello JIM,

The RED JAP stag(2-3 yrs. ago?) i got from you is a proven mating with my DINK $5000 an possum hens at half and half. I will try to grade them further to 1/4 for comparison. Won 6- 1 L. against very expensive sweaters from Bacolod and Luzon.

The 2 1/2JAP-1/2BRed hens are doing well with my Black Mcrae from Irving Wong,Hawaii. A 5 month stag from this mating recently broke his small spur in the range due to non stop in figthing with the rest of the gang. He is now in the isolation pen. An oakgrove hatch over these two hens looks very promising as well. Did you infuse any Quall asil blood with the RED JAP? I heard you have these small but very good cutting asils.