Chicken Knives, Tari, Slasher - tying, sharpening etc

[jailbird]

[jailbird]

Jun Benedicto with a stag sired by Melvin Ferguson YLH X Kelso Warren Hen

[jailbird]

Hatch Grey X KW Hen

[jailbird]

There was a Kelso thread and I promised to post pics of our Out n Out JJ we acquired from the Plaza family, and also the offspring. We have decided to stick o producing JJ Kelso X Billy Warren Hatch Hens as our foundation. We are testing various sires over them to see which will come out best. So far so good - particularly those sired by the Jeff Hudspeth Lacy RoundHead we acquired from the bidding conducted by the NFGB. Those from Mel Ferguson's YLH are also very good. the stags are tame, intelligent and speedy fighters with great cutting ability _ legs forward and body away from the opponent. very clear stretched legs upon contact. ideal for gaffing using our system.

Now that I know how to post pics again, next will be knives :-)

[FILAMEX]

Originally Posted by FILAMEX

Try looking in here. I'm sure you can learn sumthing about anything regarding the Filipino fork knife.

blade testing - YouTube

I think that that tari maker is testing for hardness at the wrong spot. I did not yet try the starret hacksaw blade but on the ultra major, both the end points are softer than the mid area of the blade.
Anyway, when this video of testing for hardness is done, one can click on the many videos at the bottom and learn sumthing about tying the knife the old way(using the long cotton wrap) and tying using the newer leather boots. One can also learn a little sumthing about sharpening and how the blade is cut and welded to the flange. In one of the videos, you can also see the little cute girl(gaffer of Biboy Enriquez) in action(tying the knife in what seems to be a major circuit event).

[BANDERADO]

Originally Posted by FILAMEX

Try looking in here. I'm sure you can learn sumthing about anything regarding the Filipino fork knife.

blade testing - YouTube

the softer the metal the more it hugs the grinder upon pushing or contact thus more sparks are created....I guess thats what happened....






//

[jailbird]

The video was also interesting cause he was grinding the fork/garol. Well i guess his point was simply to show a practical way to compare metals. It was quite creative to grind along with saw blades that would have metal rating certification and claims printed on them. Kudos to the guy as it shows the typical Filipino resourcefulness.

[jailbird]

Is anyone familiar with the Razor Edge sharpening system, using paper wheels? Any feedback, especially on using them on tari?

[jailbird]

Sorry i meant Razor Sharp edgemaking system. This is a link to their instruction site: http://www.sharpeningwheels.com/instructions.htm

Seems like a reasonably priced system if you already have a grinder motor. I would appreciate any feedback as i intend to order some and may even distribute it here if its really good and helpful.

If you have experience and can recommend other sharpening systems, or metal testing kits please post so we can learn. Thanks

[Camarines]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Is anyone familiar with the Razor Edge sharpening system, using paper wheels? Any feedback, especially on using them on tari?

I believe the old website where it used to be is gone. Googled the name and this new website popped up. http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/

http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/paper.htm

[jailbird]

Thanks sir Camarines, i hope someone who has had experience using those wheels could post the pros and cons. Thanks

[COLD STEEL]

Originally Posted by Camarines

cold steel,

I have both those style you have in your FB album. I love trying them both. I bought my surat for only 500 pesos. I think I bought three of them.

Camarines, have you ever tested those knives in Philippines ?? What were the outcomes?? Similar to the Philippines' knives, Malaysians' knives are also quite complicated in tying and alignment. When tied and aligned accurately, it is very deadly. Based on my observations, the fights seldom last to the drags. It is common that using Malaysian knives need only a few buckles before the fights ended.

As for the use of "Sulat", it is best for short and medium station cocks, as it allows longer reach. The setbacks for "sulat" are that it is totally depend on the condition of the sole (bottom part) of the cock's feet. Some cocks have very thin sole or no sole, so it is not advisable to use "sulat" as the knife is not stable. And it is 100% "NO" for the cocks that have "tibak" or "bumblefoot".

However, this is not a fix rule as many owners of the cock prefer to use the "ring" knives. As the saying go, "honey to some but poison to many".

[COLD STEEL]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Sir, you have a very good and handsome broodcock here. How is your breeding?? Any stags that were born with the black spurs?? I am an enthusiast of cock with yellow @ white legged with black spurs. So far, I am very lucky with them.

Hope you can post more pictures of this breed.

[Camarines]

Originally Posted by COLD STEEL

Camarines, have you ever tested those knives in Philippines ?? What were the outcomes?? Similar to the Philippines' knives, Malaysians' knives are also quite complicated in tying and alignment. When tied and aligned accurately, it is very deadly. Based on my observations, the fights seldom last to the drags. It is common that using Malaysian knives need only a few buckles before the fights ended.

As for the use of "Sulat", it is best for short and medium station cocks, as it allows longer reach. The setbacks for "sulat" are that it is totally depend on the condition of the sole (bottom part) of the cock's feet. Some cocks have very thin sole or no sole, so it is not advisable to use "sulat" as the knife is not stable. And it is 100% "NO" for the cocks that have "tibak" or "bumblefoot".

However, this is not a fix rule as many owners of the cock prefer to use the "ring" knives. As the saying go, "honey to some but poison to many".

I don't think I've tried them both. I was still getting the lesson on how to tie the sulat when I bought it. I remember fighting against one that has too blades and the fight ended quickly. Both knives found there mark on my chicken.

[Camarines]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Thanks sir Camarines, i hope someone who has had experience using those wheels could post the pros and cons. Thanks

Pro is it looks easy to use, doesn't not spark and eat away the metal, doesn't overheat the metal.

Con is it's probably expensive than sharpeniing with belt sander.

Paper wheel sharpening - YouTube

Paper wheel sharpening - YouTube

[jailbird]

[IMG][/IMG]

Originally Posted by COLD STEEL

Sir, you have a very good and handsome broodcock here. How is your breeding?? Any stags that were born with the black spurs?? I am an enthusiast of cock with yellow @ white legged with black spurs. So far, I am very lucky with them.

Hope you can post more pictures of this breed.

Thanks sir ColdSteel, yes all the KelsoXWarren hatch sons have dirty feet with black spurs. I posted a picture of one of the bulsstags in the "best kelso" thread. I tried to put it here but it seems to be very difficult using an ipad. Ill get more pictures posted when i get my hands on my laptop.

Our Kelso's breed true when pure: white leg (occassionally dirty feet w black sput), red with lighter hackle feathers, pea combed. Medium stationed, squarish wings. However due to many years of inbreeding - they are very shy or mailap.

We have bred this JJ Kelso pair to other lines which we have had for many years but the best combo we had was with the Billy Warren Hatch hens we borrowed from a breeder friend. These are basically blue face hatch fowl that have been inbred and line bred over a good 20 years.

The pairing resulted in very good hybrid vigor. Strong fast cutters. Wine red, pea comb, dirty white legs with black spurs, short bodies, BUT extremely shy.

We wanted to keep the crosses to fight them as bullstags in bulang bulang as they calmed down a bit after their first moulting. Then we acquired imported stags from Mel Ferguson Yellow Legged Hatch, Jeff Hudspeth RoundHead, Manny Berbanos Lemon, and one of the best was a Penny Hatch from AlGar.

So we decided to put these cocks on single mating with the KW sisters. And wow, we stumbled on some gold mine. Almost all of those roosters bred over the KW hens resulted to very nice stags. The best of which was the RH and YLH over the KW hens.

So this year, we are propagating those lines. It is very timely as we just concluded a 3 way JV to do the breeding hatching with my bro, and brooding, ranging and cording with our partner in JalaJala - we just came back today from the visit and meeting and we will have the facilities upgraded to top notch levels this season.

We are aiming at producing at least 200 stags for banding this summer. Half we will use, and maybe half we will be able to share with interested friends and fellow knife enthusiasts.

More than just the sale, we would like to get feedback as to how they perform with other people's knives. We will be happy to share knife tying techniques to visitors to the farm.

[BANDERADO]

Originally Posted by Camarines

Pro is it looks easy to use, doesn't not spark and eat away the metal, doesn't overheat the metal.

Con is it's probably expensive than sharpeniing with belt sander.

Paper wheel sharpening - YouTube

may not be suitable for LK coz of blade curvature.....blade must hug/contact at least half the face of the wheel....






//

[Camarines]

Originally Posted by BANDERADO

may not be suitable for LK coz of blade curvature.....blade must hug/contact at least half the face of the wheel....






//

Thanks for the comment. It is quite expensive too. .

[jailbird]

The wheels used by our vaciadors are ground to a curve to suit the tari curvature. I wonder if the paper wheels can also be shaped.

[jailbird]

Originally Posted by Camarines

Pro is it looks easy to use, doesn't not spark and eat away the metal, doesn't overheat the metal.

Con is it's probably expensive than sharpeniing with belt sander.

Paper wheel sharpening - YouTube

This is a great video. There is a 3/4 inch wide wheel, i hope they can be used for concave knives

[COLD STEEL]

Jailbird,
Thanks for the detail information about your breeding. The breeders in your country are lucky as you can get your "pure" stocks for breeding from US and carry out your own breeding to produce your own stock. Unlike in Malaysia, it is very difficult to get the import from US or Philippines due to importation laws. Only few people have a few the opportunities to get their breeding stocks directly from Philippines.

[COLD STEEL]

Camarines and fellow cockers,

Instead of using sharpening wheel, do any vaciadors sharpen the knives manually ?? If yes, can you give some details on what type of sharpening tools ( sharpening stones, sandpapers) they use, and maybe some tips on how to sharpen your knives. Comparing Philippines' knives to ours, your knives look almost like "mirror"...hee...hee...

[Genis]

Very nice topic sir Jailbird I did some tying when I was in my twenties with the help of my friend who's a gaffer at that time we are the same age. I only tie the knife on my own rooster to make sure nobody will blame me but myself in bush fights in Cardona,Rizal. I did learn how to although I did it in a more slower phase and won some fights with the way I did it myself I just remembered the way I point my knife back then was I kinda angled in and most of the people who had seen the way I tied will always bet on the other side thinking I made it wrong. But hey everytime my rooster hit its only one or two times and will win the fight I was amased. Then some friends will ask me to tie the knife for them eventhough they knew Im very shaky tying haha! Its just now that I realized that the way I was tying back then has its similarity with what is being used now adays. I eventually stopped tying because Im very nervous and I think it will hamper the allignment anyways, so I stick to having it done by an experienced gaffer but I still have the fashion for it. Glad to know you are now breeding in our province in Rizal I have relatives there in Jalajala in baranggay Lllano I also know Edward who breeds chicken there in Baranggay Bayugo, Jalajala,Rizal. Goodluck to you and hope to learn some from this thread of yours nice reading...

[jailbird]

Thanks Genis! Yes its a nice place, your province of Rizal. I also made some small investment in fish cages just to support the workers livelihood, and enjoy tilapia during the harvest.

[FILAMEX]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Hatch Grey X KW Hen

Very nice looking bird in this blue jail cage. Congrats in your new farm in jalajala. Hopefully, I'll be able to finally see in person how you tie your knives on these beautiful birds in the very near future.

[Genis]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Thanks Genis! Yes its a nice place, your province of Rizal. I also made some small investment in fish cages just to support the workers livelihood, and enjoy tilapia during the harvest.

That's good to know sir fish is mainly what we and folks from Laguna have been sharing in Laguna lake its just sad that they no longer allow salt water in to the lake during hot summer months. That is very important to the lake it will bring important flankton that will allow the fish to grow faster and it will also cleansed the lake. They stopped doing it to no avail we didnt understand why. We rely on fish mainly because its already there it just worries me that the lakeis not as healthy as back then. By the way you have some very nice fowl hope to meet you if I ever come back home for a visit.

[Camarines]

Originally Posted by COLD STEEL

Camarines and fellow cockers,

Instead of using sharpening wheel, do any vaciadors sharpen the knives manually ?? If yes, can you give some details on what type of sharpening tools ( sharpening stones, sandpapers) they use, and maybe some tips on how to sharpen your knives. Comparing Philippines' knives to ours, your knives look almost like "mirror"...hee...hee...

I think most vaciadors' in the Philippines uses the grinding stones. Some lubricate the knife with vegetable oil, kerosene,light motor oil, etc. I seen one vaciador that uses strips of cloth sander to get the rust out from the blade.

For sharpening stones, I look for it at Woodcraft stores or sporting good stores. There are the diamond, ceramic, Japanese waterstone, carborundum, soft arkansas, and others. Emery cloth is a good paper sander.

[jailbird]

Yes grinding wheels sometimes with sandpaper glued to the wheels.

In my case without the grinders, i use a diamond grit Fallkniven DC4 which has a ceramic hone on the other side. The diamond grit side eats off more metal and i use it when the knife has chipped or jagged edges from metal contact. The ceramic is for honing to a fine edge.
I also have several PRO-edge arkansas oilstones, the white, the surgical black and the translucent, which i use for a finer finish.

To polish the blade i use good ole metal polish, in my case its a local brand called GLO.

I usually stroke with the blade moving forward rather than the recommended reverse grind from the grinder.

I always use oil with the oilstones.

[jailbird]

Originally Posted by FILAMEX

Very nice looking bird in this blue jail cage. Congrats in your new farm in jalajala. Hopefully, I'll be able to finally see in person how you tie your knives on these beautiful birds in the very near future.

Hi Sir Filamex, anytime you can, let me know. The gamefarm we are setting up is going to be in the middle of a 15 hectare multipurpose farm of my friend. We have my current breeding there and this inspired us to go commercial. Primary customers being myself and my bro. If we do produce good enough stags we will sell the best and fight the rest ;-)

We also look forward to a second phase as a conditioning camp so that friends with birds can have them conditioned and prepared for derbies and hackfights. Theres a camp like this in Bacolod and we hope it can be replicated here in Luzon to serve the Metro ;-)


It will also be a great place for knife practice and gettogethers :-)

[FILAMEX]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Hi Sir Filamex, anytime you can, let me know. The gamefarm we are setting up is going to be in the middle of a 15 hectare multipurpose farm of my friend. We have my current breeding there and this inspired us to go commercial. Primary customers being myself and my bro. If we do produce good enough stags we will sell the best and fight the rest ;-)

We also look forward to a second phase as a conditioning camp so that friends with birds can have them conditioned and prepared for derbies and hackfights. Theres a camp like this in Bacolod and we hope it can be replicated here in Luzon to serve the Metro ;-)


It will also be a great place for knife practice and gettogethers :-)

****Thanks jailbird. That "conditioning camp" is a very interesting concept. I'm guessing that it's a place for cockers(specially from the provinces) to rent so they can condition/prepare their warriors for any
event in the metro manila area. What would be the longest number of days that a cocker would rent a place like that?