Oscar Atkins or Ed Cavosos?

[colt39]

Well, years back, I had some of them Butchers from Oscar & we had 6 & 7 time winners in Gaff & SK with them.

Don't know how they are now but back then, I surly was happy with them. Cutting fighting machines they were!

We whipped Oscar one night in AZ with a Brownred in LK. He was fighting a whole show of Hatch fowl. They were very good as well. We went to his cock house & he gave me one of them. Good Hatch cock!

[jdtennessee]

Originally Posted by colt39

well, years back, i had some of them butchers from oscar & we had 6 & 7 time winners in gaff & sk with them.

Don't know how they are now but back then, i surly was happy with them. Cutting fighting machines they were!

We whipped oscar one night in az with a brownred in lk. He was fighting a whole show of hatch fowl. They were very good as well. We went to his cock house & he gave me one of them. Good hatch cock!

if he GAVE you one of those good hatch cocks then you must have had something that he wanted!

[MarshButcher]

Originally Posted by hitmonkey 2

i didnt say i had them i would not feed those crazy things i said they win alot with them they do act funny though.do the marshes show there fowl anymore if so i would like to watch some to see if there worth stickin up for lol if you raise them and dont show them you are a peddler unless you have some one that shows them on a regular for you

Well Mr.Monkey,I hope you have the common sense to realize that it illegal to show our fowl in all 50 states so I think most here would have a bit of trouble showing them. Now my Dad Phil did not sell fowl as he did not have the time or want to do it so I take it your friend got his fowl from my Great-Grandfather Phil Marsh. For the record he died in 1945. And you did say he got fowl from Phil Marsh. When it was legal to show we used 1 1/4" heels exclusively in regulations style as well as the peg awls when we could. If you don't think it takes GAME fowl to win in those heels then you are not the cocker you think you are. What fowl I do sell is quality fowl. I do not raise hundreds a year and pick what to sell from there. I raise about 50-60 total as that suits my needs so if I was going to be a peddler don't you think I would raise more than that? Did it ever occur to you that your "friend" may not be the breeder/conditioner that he thinks he is? A good many fowl have been ruined even before they get to the keep by not receiving the best of care. And for the record: I was asked once by a visitor if I guaranteed my fowl. I replied "NO"...thats right I will not guarantee then because I do not how under what conditions they will be kept,how they will be bred,etc. Once they are out of my hands they are yours to do with as you see fit. If it was legal in this country I'd love to meet you and tie on a some of the old slow heels so you could see what gameness is all about.

MARK MARSH

[MarshButcher]

Originally Posted by YeY197

I have never owned any butchers period but have seen the Atkins/ Bull Run Butchers and they are the best I have seen with my own eyes and better then most peoples fowl overall they know their birds and know how to get them right..Huge difference between you the buyer who has no experience with them and them whom have raised them and showed them for years all across the country in all kinds of scenerios.

Dont expect to do good with nothing if you dont understand the fowl your feeding.I'm sure they are funny I wouldnt trust 90% of "Butchers" to begin with unless the person got them way back in the day when they was competing in them fancy members only tournaments and even then there is so much time that anything could go wrong in a breeding program.

I have also seen people that bought direct from Mr. Marsh ring their necks and discard a whole family of them they just dont have the ability or the heart according to them..There is way better breeders of Butchers then Mr. Marsh people that took that line a fowl from being good short heel cocks to superb cutting machines in the long gaff and short knife like Oscar Atkins did.

I cant say squat about what he sends out gamecocks dont come with a warranty you buy a name and you get a name satisfaction isnt guaranteed so dont fool yourself into thinking you deserve the best out of someones yard who competes all across the country you want Butcher you get Butcher..Personally I rather buy from the guy I have seen as opposed to the guy using his family name to sell.

Ed Cavosos might have good ones but I have absolutley no experience with them not even hear say.But if you do then go for it.

Hmmmm.....can you explain how I am using my name to sell fowl? Is it my fault that my name is Marsh and I love gamefowl? Do you see me raising hundreds of birds to sell? Do you see me having ads every month to sell fowl? Do you see me writing articles to promote myself or fowl to sell? They promote themselves my friend. I turn down many offers every year to sell fowl simply because I don't have that many to let go. If I wanted to mass produce them and sell them I could,but I won't do that.

MARK MARSH

[DixieFowl]

Alot of this information being posted is hear say or what theyve read in the past and rembered. Mark you may not promote urself and ur fowl But theyve sure been a hellva lot of folks advertisin and promoting marsh butchers is the past and makin money off folks usin ur grandfathers name to peddle fowl. I wouldnt trust Oscar askins in a **** house with a muzzle hes is the crookest handler theyve ever been.

[Hotcocker]

Mark ill certainly speak up for u, i don't know that it will count for much but i will, all i can say to u all is, from what I've seen of marks stocks, id certainly love to own those fowl, he isn't selling fowl on his grandpaws name, just humbly carrying on his legacy, from what i know, he still breeds for type suitable for them fancy tournaments, which r harder to win than a derby, and certainly harder to find cocks bred for, still the ultimate testimony to gameness and gamefowl, is the short heels, i think that's what we're all supposed to be after, game cocks.

[nonny]

Originally Posted by MarshButcher

Well Mr.Monkey,I hope you have the common sense to realize that it illegal to show our fowl in all 50 states so I think most here would have a bit of trouble showing them. Now my Dad Phil did not sell fowl as he did not have the time or want to do it so I take it your friend got his fowl from my Great-Grandfather Phil Marsh. For the record he died in 1945. And you did say he got fowl from Phil Marsh. When it was legal to show we used 1 1/4" heels exclusively in regulations style as well as the peg awls when we could. If you don't think it takes GAME fowl to win in those heels then you are not the cocker you think you are. What fowl I do sell is quality fowl. I do not raise hundreds a year and pick what to sell from there. I raise about 50-60 total as that suits my needs so if I was going to be a peddler don't you think I would raise more than that? Did it ever occur to you that your "friend" may not be the breeder/conditioner that he thinks he is? A good many fowl have been ruined even before they get to the keep by not receiving the best of care. And for the record: I was asked once by a visitor if I guaranteed my fowl. I replied "NO"...thats right I will not guarantee then because I do not how under what conditions they will be kept,how they will be bred,etc. Once they are out of my hands they are yours to do with as you see fit. If it was legal in this country I'd love to meet you and tie on a some of the old slow heels so you could see what gameness is all about.

MARK MARSH

A very dignified reply..........

[kali ises]

i was in touch with mark last yr about purchasing butchers, but turn out not possible because i do internet banking, i would love to look at a butcher on the tie cord, it is history. marsh butcher blood was used alot more than most people realise, from our lemon, typewriter blues, etc....
history, the family that originated the butcher bloodline, still breeding it after all these years, hopefully mark has a son to carry on, so another generation of filipino cockers can enjoy the butcher blood.

[YeY197]

Originally Posted by MarshButcher

Hmmmm.....can you explain how I am using my name to sell fowl? Is it my fault that my name is Marsh and I love gamefowl? Do you see me raising hundreds of birds to sell? Do you see me having ads every month to sell fowl? Do you see me writing articles to promote myself or fowl to sell? They promote themselves my friend. I turn down many offers every year to sell fowl simply because I don't have that many to let go. If I wanted to mass produce them and sell them I could,but I won't do that.

MARK MARSH

Mark lets get real do you honestly think you have better Butchers then either Oscar A or ED C? We are talking real time not when it was legal, I dont care about the past and what your family did cause you always bring that up and the fact that it's illegal now,Your right though its Illegal and your family has alot of history.. When it was legal though how many derbies did you MARK win? Not your Father or your Grandpa but you Mark? Do you think your in the same leauge as Oscar or ED when it comes to winning with them? Do they sell them self because of the your last name or cause they are that great?

[kemosabe]

Originally Posted by YeY197

Mark lets get real do you honestly think you have better Butchers then either Oscar A or ED C?

lets see.....i bet Mark has true Butchers......unlike most breeders, he raises for quality in his fowl not numbers.....both Oscar and Ed has about anything you want if you call them, ask them for a breed they dont advertise an see what happens....i have known Oscar for years an only hearsy about Mr. C........

[hitmonkey 2]

mr marsh about the common sense i probaly dont have alot cause even though its illegal to fight roosters thats my hobby and my life im not a breeder and seller i make my livin at the scales and if illegal means u cant test em u aint fought the butchers in years so u probaly got me beat on common sense but put the cockfighting smarts u have in hummingbirds a$$ it will fly backwards

yey197 thanks fr that last post u said what i dont have the common sense to say

kemosabe lets see.........who gives a dam mark has the TRUE butchers true dont put wins on the board oscar shown a show of those so called not real butchers this past season in shortheel and went straight with them i know i was there i got to go water and feed the chickens i dont have time to set here and argue with yall right now

[kemosabe]

Originally Posted by hitmonkey 2

i said they are junk my friend now partner got some marsh butchers from his old partner mr hatcher that they aquired direct from marsh they could fight but were not game and were hard to feed wonted to hold there feed if they ever felt a little stress.

Originally Posted by hitmonkey 2

i make my livin at the scales


kemosabe lets see.........who gives a dam mark has the TRUE butchers true dont put wins on the board

Is your partner the one that fed the "Marsh" butchers too....the same one that you posted about sometime ago......you know something about 16 ounces......i'd say thats a more than a little stress......lol....just sayin.....you called out Mark...your partner got birds second hand....not straight from the source...he got them from Mr. Hatcher.....your words not mine....

[sucess gamefarm]

Originally Posted by DixieFowl

Alot of this information being posted is hear say or what theyve read in the past and rembered. Mark you may not promote urself and ur fowl But theyve sure been a hellva lot of folks advertisin and promoting marsh butchers is the past and makin money off folks usin ur grandfathers name to peddle fowl. I wouldnt trust Oscar askins in a **** house with a muzzle hes is the crookest handler theyve ever been.

His own brother who visits here said he is a crook.( His own blood) that says alot I have three brothers an know them better then most so I'll take his word when he called him a CROOK.

[ernest akins]

Originally Posted by bankiva

There are other threads where people have negative comments about both Akin brothers. You probably got good blood because they are your friends. What about everyone else? Don't they deserve honest fowl for their hard earned money.

Sir, if you know of anyone that is not satisfied with "ANYTHING" they ever bought from Ernest Akins, please tell me, I will gladly give their " HARD EARNED MONEY" back.
Also, please don't refer to us as, the Akins brothers, I'm Ernest Eugene Akins, he's Oscar Claiborn Akins, he's a thief, I'm not. If you knew us, you would know that.
Sincerly,
Ernest Akins

[sucess gamefarm]

Originally Posted by ernest akins

Sir, if you know of anyone that is not satisfied with "ANYTHING" they ever bought from Ernest Akins, please tell me, I will gladly give their " HARD EARNED MONEY" back.
Also, please don't refer to us as, the Akins brothers, I'm Ernest Eugene Akins, he's Oscar Claiborn Akins, he's a thief, I'm not. If you knew us, you would know that.
Sincerly,
Ernest Akins

I didnt mean to involve you in my statement but wanted to call a spade a spade through the smoke screen i beleive You an Mr. Marsh are very honest people beside being breeders . SG

[lurena]

Originally Posted by ernest akins

Sir, if you know of anyone that is not satisfied with "ANYTHING" they ever bought from Ernest Akins, please tell me, I will gladly give their " HARD EARNED MONEY" back.
Also, please don't refer to us as, the Akins brothers, I'm Ernest Eugene Akins, he's Oscar Claiborn Akins, he's a thief, I'm not. If you knew us, you would know that.
Sincerly,
Ernest Akins

Ernest Atkins has better butcher blood than Oscar. Has good powerful hatch blood and regular grey as well. Ernest do you still have the Mclean and speckled Bates hatch? Are those hatch from Oscar? Or did you get them somewhere else? Anyways real strong and game hatch. A little bit slow for short Knife but crossed onto good kelso blood make excellent crosses as well.

[PINOY420*]

Originally Posted by jdtennessee

Best Butcher Fowl reside at Bull Run. (imo)

probably because he sells everyone his junk! lol

[kywolf]

sounds like one of oscars buddies got his little feelings hurt,hearing everyone call him a crook an tried blaming mr. marsh to create a smokescreen.....oh btw,i recall someone at springbrook talking about oscar akins.....he said,"oscar is the most likeable CROOK you ever met"......

[kali ises]

no need for name calling, purchase what you like, don't like, don't purchase.
i'm getting a fowl from oscar, i'll give it a go, if i like it, i'll use it, if not, i cull it, end of story. because i cull it, nothing to do with being a thief, i blame just don't like it. actually i was purchasing a butcher from oscar, well know breeder friend in the pi told me the best butcher blood in the pi came from oscar, oscar doesn't have a butcher to sell (pretty honest for him to say that), getting a butcheralbany.

[gallero210]

Originally Posted by hitmonkey 2

i would asoon have a case of the clap as get anything from marsh he is the peddler of peddlers just like bill roberts. i have seen ed's golden hackle hatches fight my friend hector bought 10 cocks from him they seem to be pretty honest foul. his butchers are spose to be better than the hatches

Hitmonkey2,
Hey unless they were shipped directly to you and then you would have first hand knowledge. But trashing a mans name in that manner is uncalled for.Too many varibles get tossed in when more that one person is involved. The marsh name has been around for along time a little respect goes along way.
YFIS,
gallero210

[YeY197]

Guys get them from whom ever you want Oscar probably will send you junk and so might Ed Cavosos who knows..I know if I was ever in the market for Butchers (which I never will be..lol) I would not get them from nobody mentioned on this thread Not Oscar, Ed, Mark, or Ernest.There is only one place where you can find the good ones IMO.

[hitmonkey 2]

Originally Posted by gallero210

Hitmonkey2,
Hey unless they were shipped directly to you and then you would have first hand knowledge. But trashing a mans name in that manner is uncalled for.Too many varibles get tossed in when more that one person is involved. The marsh name has been around for along time a little respect goes along way.
YFIS,
gallero210

hush the grown folks are talkin

[hitmonkey 2]

Originally Posted by kemosabe

Is your partner the one that fed the "Marsh" butchers too....the same one that you posted about sometime ago......you know something about 16 ounces......i'd say thats a more than a little stress......lol....just sayin.....you called out Mark...your partner got birds second hand....not straight from the source...he got them from Mr. Hatcher.....your words not mine....

if you messed with as many and showed as many as we do a year i bet you would see some crazy shi* to man lol but yes it was the same guy who feed but they felt and acted good i dont care what everybody thinks are what they say when they start makin a livin whippin me i might care what everybody else has to say lol

[MarshButcher]

Originally Posted by YeY197

Mark lets get real do you honestly think you have better Butchers then either Oscar A or ED C? We are talking real time not when it was legal, I dont care about the past and what your family did cause you always bring that up and the fact that it's illegal now,Your right though its Illegal and your family has alot of history.. When it was legal though how many derbies did you MARK win? Not your Father or your Grandpa but you Mark? Do you think your in the same leauge as Oscar or ED when it comes to winning with them? Do they sell them self because of the your last name or cause they are that great?

Do I have better Butchers than Ed,Oscar, or whoever? I like to think I do. But then again you never know. i'm sure they all strive to breed quality fowl. I do know that I am not afraid to meet anyone in the pit, and any pit for that matter. It seems that you have a problem with the Butchers (which is fine by me) so you go to trashing them. Must be you been whipped by them so this is your way of getting back at them. So what does it take to be in someone elses league? Fight at Sunset? Fight at Copperstate? I'd love to have fought at those places when they were up and running but the simple fact is those places are too far away for me. By the way,do you think it makes a difference to the cocks where they are pitted? There were tough pits all over the entire country just that Sunset and Copperstate got all the press because they were the legal ones. Stands to reason if you have any common sense. The way these boards are monitored do you think anyone is stupid enough to say if they are fighting in the USA? What better way to have a raid pulled off at you place!
I find it unfortunate that only a few can stir things up like this. I have nothing against any other breeder and won't be drawn into your personal little war with them. Seems some time ago you were creating quite a problem here concerning a main as I recall. So.....my fowl suit me very well as they do others. If you don't like that then too bad. I love and appreciate my heritage in this sport and am fortunate to have had excellent fowl passed on down to me. The Butchers must be doing something right to have been around for about 94 years now and they are still going strong. Now only for me but for men such as Cavazos, Ernie Akins, and many others. And they will still be doing it loooooong after you are gone as well......my friend. :-)

MARK MARSH

[hitmonkey 2]

Originally Posted by kywolf

sounds like one of oscars buddies got his little feelings hurt,hearing everyone call him a crook an tried blaming mr. marsh to create a smokescreen.....oh btw,i recall someone at springbrook talking about oscar akins.....he said,"oscar is the most likeable CROOK you ever met"......

you are just mad cause they aint your buddies its hard to like the winning crowd but dont lose faith we have a hug a loser day once a year one day you might be the one that gets the hug lol i hear its is the greatest feeling in the world

[hitmonkey 2]

Originally Posted by MarshButcher

Do I have better Butchers than Ed,Oscar, or whoever? I like to think I do. But then again you never know. i'm sure they all strive to breed quality fowl. I do know that I am not afraid to meet anyone in the pit, and any pit for that matter. It seems that you have a problem with the Butchers (which is fine by me) so you go to trashing them. Must be you been whipped by them so this is your way of getting back at them. So what does it take to be in someone elses league? Fight at Sunset? Fight at Copperstate? I'd love to have fought at those places when they were up and running but the simple fact is those places are too far away for me. By the way,do you think it makes a difference to the cocks where they are pitted? There were tough pits all over the entire country just that Sunset and Copperstate got all the press because they were the legal ones. Stands to reason if you have any common sense. The way these boards are monitored do you think anyone is stupid enough to say if they are fighting in the USA? What better way to have a raid pulled off at you place!
I find it unfortunate that only a few can stir things up like this. I have nothing against any other breeder and won't be drawn into your personal little war with them. Seems some time ago you were creating quite a problem here concerning a main as I recall. So.....my fowl suit me very well as they do others. If you don't like that then too bad. I love and appreciate my heritage in this sport and am fortunate to have had excellent fowl passed on down to me. The Butchers must be doing something right to have been around for about 94 years now and they are still going strong. Now only for me but for men such as Cavazos, Ernie Akins, and many others. And they will still be doing it loooooong after you are gone as well......my friend. :-)

MARK MARSH

wow that was a very respectable post

[kywolf]

Originally Posted by hitmonkey 2

you are just mad cause they aint your buddies its hard to like the winning crowd but dont lose faith we have a hug a loser day once a year one day you might be the one that gets the hug lol i hear its is the greatest feeling in the world

you just might be surprised who some of my friends are,i'm sure if you are familiar with this area you have heard of them,an as far as winning,one or the other has won about everything you can think of,done a little of it myself btw.you can keep the hug.......i dont hug guys.........

[jgmadridRMZ]

wOw.. all must have smoked something here, okay guys now read your post one more time. I hope you can find common sense in them because I not. if anyone has good cocks , good for him..!. If not ... simply does not get the cocks from him.
everyone should have respect for people who gave us this beautiful gamecock sport, better yet, have respect for ourselves who despite of adverse circumstances even fight to keep it. AND GUYS LET THE COCKS TALKS ... In the pit is where the GOOD Cock come up...
not stop being gentlemen...

PS. Back to the thread ...I think the Oscar have a good reputation wining with his fowls... I had his greys and they were Good to me. and I have seen Oscar's Butchers Win in Mx... about ED Cavazos ...I not have experience first hands..

Mark M. my brother and I fall in love with the pictures that you and other members showed of your fowls... We look them ...nice. enough to try..it

Just my comment.
JG

[gallero210]

Originally Posted by hitmonkey 2

hush the grown folks are talkin

Sorry mommy sure don't sound like grown folks...
YFIS,
gallero210

[frederick sy]

Originally Posted by hitmonkey 2

wow that was a very respectable post

It's a respectable post coming from a respectable and educated man.