Oscar Atkins or Ed Cavosos?

[frederick sy]

Originally Posted by YeY197

Mark lets get real do you honestly think you have better Butchers then either Oscar A or ED C? We are talking real time not when it was legal, I dont care about the past and what your family did cause you always bring that up and the fact that it's illegal now,Your right though its Illegal and your family has alot of history.. When it was legal though how many derbies did you MARK win? Not your Father or your Grandpa but you Mark? Do you think your in the same leauge as Oscar or ED when it comes to winning with them? Do they sell them self because of the your last name or cause they are that great?

I do think Mark are far better Butchers than Oscar, as I have both of them.I haven't seen Ed Cavazos Butchers so I cannot tell and one thing I guarantee is Mark breeds what he fights and I fought them in the toughest of Competition,Win or lose they make me proud and honored to have them.Does Oscar breeds all the winners he fought at Sunset?Philippines is a legal country to prove what you have and I have Mark's bloodline here and If you guys are here anytime we can arrange for a Main as I am an easy man to find.

YFIS,
Frederick Sy

[YeY197]

Originally Posted by frederick sy

I do think Mark are far better Butchers than Oscar, as I have both of them.I haven't seen Ed Cavazos Butchers so I cannot tell and one thing I guarantee is Mark breeds what he fights and I fought them in the toughest of Competition,Win or lose they make me proud and honored to have them.Does Oscar breeds all the winners he fought at Sunset?Philippines is a legal country to prove what you have and I have Mark's bloodline here and If you guys are here anytime we can arrange for a Main as I am an easy man to find.

YFIS,
Frederick Sy

Why are you quoting me?? I dont care about the P.I. nor do I care to visit Mexico is alot closer if that was the case.I dont care what Oscar or Ed or Mark breed to sell..I just know that there is better Butchers then what Mark Marsh breeds and he's got "Authentic" Butchers.Mark is a grown man he can handle himself buddy.

Mark,
I dont go around asking what my opponents what their bird was I could care less if I lost to a Butcher or a Blue/Muff/Toppie/Hennie 4 way cross.My point is that there is better "Butchers" out there then your "Authentic" ones my reason was explained before you accused me of getting whooped by butchers and that I'm bitter about it so if you read back carefully you will see..Sorry if you dont like it..But its my opinion if it bothers you or anybody I dont give a crap.Another thing I didnt start the main thread it was started by another board member and he challenged me everything was handled in private away from all the cyber cheerleaders the thread was deleted upon my request and me and the challenger made our arrangements in private.Nobody is starting nothing if they are so good then my opinion should not bother you.. If you think you got it and your customers are satisfied then what are you getting so worked up about..Your right butchers have and will be here for a long time that is not an issue with me and never will be.

[kali ises]

threads like this one, & others similar to this thread, i've decided to stay away from this site for awhile, too much unnessary bad mouthing, meaningless posts. jwolf

[frederick sy]

[QUOTE=YeY197;4232603]Why are you quoting me?? I dont care about the P.I. nor do I care to visit Mexico is alot closer if that was the case.I dont care what Oscar or Ed or Mark breed to sell..I just know that there is better Butchers then what Mark Marsh breeds and he's got "Authentic" Butchers.Mark is a grown man he can handle himself buddy.

If you know better Butchers out there then it's good for you.who cares?Mark doesn't need a cyber cheerleader here,I just know the person fully and I know he didn't claim anything about his fowl.Did he compare his fowl to Oscar or Ed Cavazos or did he bad mouth these breeders and claiming he have the best Butchers of them all?What did Mark did to deserve all your accusations?

[Bombshell]

When I read this thread I know it going to a war of words in here.

[hitmonkey 2]

Originally Posted by kywolf

you just might be surprised who some of my friends are,i'm sure if you are familiar with this area you have heard of them,an as far as winning,one or the other has won about everything you can think of,done a little of it myself btw.you can keep the hug.......i dont hug guys.........

is your name massy by any chance the way you word stuff you sound like my friend massy i dont know if he is on here are not just wondering

[ernest akins]

Originally Posted by lurena

Ernest Atkins has better butcher blood than Oscar. Has good powerful hatch blood and regular grey as well. Ernest do you still have the Mclean and speckled Bates hatch? Are those hatch from Oscar? Or did you get them somewhere else? Anyways real strong and game hatch. A little bit slow for short Knife but crossed onto good kelso blood make excellent crosses as well.

Yes, I still have all the same Bloodlines I've always had, never mixed anyone's blood with mine. I've been around a long time, I know all the crooks,
I used to fight under Bull Run until 1974, got tired of doing all the work, & not getting my part of the money, changed my banner to Butcher Hollow,
No, I didn't get any of my bloodlines from Oscar, wouldn't have nothing he's got. He did get Butchers, & McRay Hatch from me 17 years ago.
I've never bought any brood fowl from anyone.
Big Red gave me my Butchers when I was 13 years old, Harold gave me his Hatch and Grey when I was 15 years old, Richard gave me his Hatch when I was 16 years old, An older gentleman from Hazel Green, Al. gave me my Out & Out Kelso's, my McRay Hatch, & my Lacey Roundheads, about 30 years ago.
Thanks for asking
Ernest

[Supercut]

would love to see some butcher pics mr Akins....

[springwater]

Have not seen them in a while but I remember in the 90's when the butcher hollow RV showed up at the big LK derbies at Red Arrow they was tough to whip. I remember those little dark red white legged roosters well. Looked like butcher/rh but I could be wrong. I remember them making the pockets of a fellow they called old lucky a lot lighter one weekend. lol. I think he was fighting some brown reds and Ernest kept hacking and whipping him good. I think he even ended up with some of the guys jewelry. lol Dont know if Earnest will remember but we fought a three cock after main derby one of those weekends. We had some greys and met him 3 times in the three cock. I dont know how we did it but we got lucky all three times and won. Every fight we was 100-10 behind in the lk. Just was our day I guess because his was better fighters for sure.

[kywolf]

Originally Posted by hitmonkey 2

is your name massy by any chance the way you word stuff you sound like my friend massy i dont know if he is on here are not just wondering

nope,its not massy.i have a few friends in bama but don't think i know you

[MarshButcher]

Originally Posted by ernest akins

Yes, I still have all the same Bloodlines I've always had, never mixed anyone's blood with mine. I've been around a long time, I know all the crooks,
I used to fight under Bull Run until 1974, got tired of doing all the work, & not getting my part of the money, changed my banner to Butcher Hollow,
No, I didn't get any of my bloodlines from Oscar, wouldn't have nothing he's got. He did get Butchers, & McRay Hatch from me 17 years ago.
I've never bought any brood fowl from anyone.
Big Red gave me my Butchers when I was 13 years old, Harold gave me his Hatch and Grey when I was 15 years old, Richard gave me his Hatch when I was 16 years old, An older gentleman from Hazel Green, Al. gave me my Out & Out Kelso's, my McRay Hatch, & my Lacey Roundheads, about 30 years ago.
Thanks for asking
Ernest

Nice bit of history there Ernie. Red got the Butchers as well as the Speeders from my Grandfather but I don't think he did too much with the Speeders. He got mostly the Brown-Reds not the Greys.

[MarshButcher]

I'll make my last comments on this subject (which has gotten way out of hand) and that will be the end of it. I will offer no further comments so if the "chosen 2" wish to slam me,my fowl,and my family with no repercussions then here id their chance.

Mr.Monkey: You have accused me of being the "peddler of peddlers." Now how did you come to that conclusion? Like I stated earlier I only raise around 50-60 birds a year. That is the number I hatch,not pen up. I usually only sell no more than 10 a year and those that I do are quality fowl. I get 4 times the requests for fowl than what I let go,so if that is your definition of a peddler then I guess I am. You also stated that the Butchers you mentioned came direct from Phil Marsh. Well since my father Phil II didn't sell hardly any I guess you mean Phil I. Like I stated he died in 1945 so the fowl must have been obtained at least 67 years ago from him. Now you asked "do the Marsh's show their fowl?" What do you think? Wait,I know what you think. As a reminder it is now illegal in all 50 states to show our fowl as we want to but yes,when it was legal we did show our fowl quite often and with good results.The last derby win in a legal area was in Virginia. Anyone who admits to fighting fowl here in the USA on this board is just asking for trouble. In case you didn't know it this board IS monitored by our enemies,trust me on this. I have been in law enforcement for 29 years and have no desire to be on the other side of the bars so if you want to brag about fighting your fowl feel free to do so at your own risk.

Mr Ye: Can you tell me who it was that you watched them "ring their necks?" I would like to know who in fact it was and when this was. And for the record we always used the short gaff as that is what was used in the area we fought. Is it our fault that there are no knife fights and very very few long heels fights where we showed? Even a 1 1/2" is considered a long heel where we went. And for the record the Butchers seem to do very well in any length and type of heel. You asked me if I have won any derbies? Of course I have. The last in a legal area was in Virginia. I have also won many private mains as well and yes I have lost some as well. Not afrais to admit that at all. And to answer you question,yes I do get worked up when someone questions my family history and what I have done in and for the sport when they have no idea.

And to everyone: Thank you to all who have sent me e-mails,private messages, phone calls,and postings in regards to this thread. your show of support has been overwhelming and I am humbled by it. I feel it is a shame that the Akins brother cannot see eye to eye but then that happens in family I guess. Also.....with the venom shown by a few,not only in this thread but in others as well is it any wonder why our sport is illegal and that we cannot get along to try to legalize it? We are truly our own worst enemy and always will be. All one has to do is read the boards and the proof is there. We talk about unity and working to fight back at our enemies but until we all learn to get along and fight for the common goal we will remain illegal forever. And remember: when you hear a story or have someone say " I heard this about so and so" remember....there is always someone out there who KNOWS the truth behind what is being said. Now......want to slam me? Go ahead. Feel free. You will get no rebuttal as I will not view this thread again.

MARK MARSH

[ernest akins]

Originally Posted by springwater

Have not seen them in a while but I remember in the 90's when the butcher hollow RV showed up at the big LK derbies at Red Arrow they was tough to whip. I remember those little dark red white legged roosters well. Looked like butcher/rh but I could be wrong. I remember them making the pockets of a fellow they called old lucky a lot lighter one weekend. lol. I think he was fighting some brown reds and Ernest kept hacking and whipping him good. I think he even ended up with some of the guys jewelry. lol Dont know if Earnest will remember but we fought a three cock after main derby one of those weekends. We had some greys and met him 3 times in the three cock. I dont know how we did it but we got lucky all three times and won. Every fight we was 100-10 behind in the lk. Just was our day I guess because his was better fighters for sure.

It was at Red Arrow, not Red River.
Old Lucky was Donald Staggs, we hacked 3 that day. He had just beat Oscar & Harold out of $200,000. at Copper State, so he was cocky, he ask me if i was Oscars little brother, i said yes sir i am, he said Oscar & Harold built him a new house, if i would hack some in L.K., he would let me build him a 3 car garage to match his house. He had Daryl Mack tying & handling.
He didn't get his garage, he lost half of his new house, we hacked one for $10,000., second one for $20,000., then he called his wife to bring him $50,000., we hacked the 3rd. one for $50,000. and in the pit i ask he to bet 10 more, he had no more money so i bet him 10 more against his 7 ct. diamond ring. that was the brown red you're thinking about.
They went to the lights and both came down dying, he couldn't break, if you remember, i didn't pull on my cock, just layed his little head in my hand, took my thumb & opened his eye, he started pecking at the other cock, and died.
That was as game as they get. Mine was a pure Kelso.
I still have them bread the same, just as game, & open to anybody.
Lord, wasn't that the GOOD OLD DAYS?
That's my story, and i'm sticking to it !!!!
Thanks Friend,
Ernest Akins

P.S. I won that 10 cock derby, 10 & 0 also, anyone don't believe it, ask Ken Mc Neely.

.

[guamgazu]

Nice stories of the past mr.Akins ....this is the stuff i like to read about.

[ernest akins]

Originally Posted by springwater

Have not seen them in a while but I remember in the 90's when the butcher hollow RV showed up at the big LK derbies at Red Arrow they was tough to whip. I remember those little dark red white legged roosters well. Looked like butcher/rh but I could be wrong. I remember them making the pockets of a fellow they called old lucky a lot lighter one weekend. lol. I think he was fighting some brown reds and Ernest kept hacking and whipping him good. I think he even ended up with some of the guys jewelry. lol Dont know if Earnest will remember but we fought a three cock after main derby one of those weekends. We had some greys and met him 3 times in the three cock. I dont know how we did it but we got lucky all three times and won. Every fight we was 100-10 behind in the lk. Just was our day I guess because his was better fighters for sure.

It was at Red Arrow, not Red River.
Old Lucky was Donald Staggs, we hacked 3 that day. He had just beat Oscar & Harold out of $200,000. at Copper State, so he was cocky, he ask me if i was Oscars little brother, i said yes sir i am, he said Oscar & Harold built him a new house, if i would hack some in L.K., he would let me build him a 3 car garage to match his house. He had Daryl Mack tying & handling.
He didn't get his garage, he lost half of his new house, we hacked one for $10,000., second one for $20,000., then he called his wife to bring him $50,000., we hacked the 3rd. one for $50,000. and in the pit i ask him to bet 10 more, he had no more money so i bet him 10 more against his 7 ct. diamond ring. that was the brown red you're thinking about.
They went to the lights and both came down dying, he couldn't break, if you remember, i didn't pull on my cock, just layed his little head in my hand, took my thumb & opened his eye, he started pecking at the other cock, and died. I won all 3, 80 gran & sold his ring for 12 gran, then won the 10 Cock Holiday Special by myself.
That was as game as they get. Mine was a pure Kelso.
I still have them bread the same, just as game.
Lord, wasn't that the GOOD OLD DAYS?
Thanks Friend,
Ernest Akins

P.S. anyone don't believe it, ask Ken Mc Neely, pit owner, he refereed.

.

[springwater]

Yes it was Red Arrow. Red River wasnt even around then. That was when Red Arrow was the place to fight. They had those big Long Knife derbies once a month and all the guys from the Tennessee and Alabama area would come. The guys like us that were fighting there regular lost a lot of fights to them in the beginning before we figured out you couldnt beat the true long knife birds with birds bred for gaff. lol. That was when knife fighting was just getting popular around there. Dont need to ask Ken, I was there and remember. I was a lot younger then but have not had more fun fighting birds than at those years of my life. What I remember was that old lucky fought some of the brown reds in the derby also. Probably some of the best breaking roosters there was, but he had problems with getting a lot of them to fight down roosters and lost a few fights when they wasnt even hurt it looked like. I remember him saying they cant beat these roosters every fight, but I think they did. lol I also remember meeting Duke Hulsey for the first time in a pit. We actually was able to beat him and he came to the cockhouse afterwards to shake my dad's hand and congratulate him since they were friends in the past and Duke asked Dad who raised the rooster and dad said I did and Duke shook my hand also and said I did a good job. Meant a lot for a young teenager to hear that from a legend of the sport.

[ernest akins]

Originally Posted by kali ises

no need for name calling, purchase what you like, don't like, don't purchase.
i'm getting a fowl from oscar, i'll give it a go, if i like it, i'll use it, if not, i cull it, end of story. because i cull it, nothing to do with being a thief, i blame just don't like it. actually i was purchasing a butcher from oscar, well know breeder friend in the pi told me the best butcher blood in the pi came from oscar, oscar doesn't have a butcher to sell (pretty honest for him to say that), getting a butcheralbany.

where do you think Oscar got the good ones? Buy one, see what you get,
maybe good, maybe not, depends on where he buys it, for your dumb ass.
Get an Aubany to, he hasn't had any Aubany in 40 years, but he'll sell you a "Good Pure" one.
Good Look,
Ernest Akins

[ernest akins]

Originally Posted by springwater

Yes it was Red Arrow. Red River wasnt even around then. That was when Red Arrow was the place to fight. They had those big Long Knife derbies once a month and all the guys from the Tennessee and Alabama area would come. The guys like us that were fighting there regular lost a lot of fights to them in the beginning before we figured out you couldnt beat the true long knife birds with birds bred for gaff. lol. That was when knife fighting was just getting popular around there. Dont need to ask Ken, I was there and remember. I was a lot younger then but have not had more fun fighting birds than at those years of my life. What I remember was that old lucky fought some of the brown reds in the derby also. Probably some of the best breaking roosters there was, but he had problems with getting a lot of them to fight down roosters and lost a few fights when they wasnt even hurt it looked like. I remember him saying they cant beat these roosters every fight, but I think they did. lol I also remember meeting Duke Hulsey for the first time in a pit. We actually was able to beat him and he came to the cockhouse afterwards to shake my dad's hand and congratulate him since they were friends in the past and Duke asked Dad who raised the rooster and dad said I did and Duke shook my hand also and said I did a good job. Meant a lot for a young teenager to hear that from a legend of the sport.

Yes Sir, Duke was surely a Legend in the sport, and will never be forgotten.
He was always my HERO, taught me a lot growing up.
I remember him telling me once to feed them like a Sparrill and make them **** like a Goose. He gave me a Pure Kelso cock & hen, before he sole out to Ray Price. My Kelso's still carry half that blood, other half is John O Fowler.
ufis
Ernest

[huevosdeoro]

i had a friend in mex that had bull run hatch and they run like hens wen he used them they were junk

[bankiva]

Hi Ernest I tried to send you a PM about your phone number. I'd like to come visit your farm.

[hitmonkey 2]

mr. marsh thinks for your honesty i went to mr hatchers son and he told me mr hatcher aquired them in 1940 if i would have known they had them that long i would have never made a comment about the gameness it could have very well been there breeding they show fine in the lk and sk but lacked alot for the spur. i would like to see some pics ok your fowl to see if they still look the same the ones mr. hatcher had were nice looking roosters and sparred awesome but anyway i appoligize for my comments your friend in sport ,Kenny


still dont like butchers and dont care to meet them lol

[68pkup]

mr. atkins could you msg me your info so i could give you a call

[blackhatchfarm]

This thread should never been allowed on here .All you have to do is read back and you will see my point.

[chef11]

ernest akins,
say hello to your to sons, in kentucky. do you have the generals ? or oscar does?

from .. howie the chief.

[gallero210]

I don't know Mr. Akins but I did vist Mr Cavazos one time. Mr. Cavazos is a complete gentelman and told mr things about his fowl that he really didn't have to. Seemed very honest to me he has a very nice farm but I've never seen his fowl shown. He didn't push his fowl on me either.
YFIS,
gallero210

[john barrocan]

Originally Posted by gallero210

I don't know Mr. Akins but I did vist Mr Cavazos one time. Mr. Cavazos is a complete gentelman and told mr things about his fowl that he really didn't have to. Seemed very honest to me he has a very nice farm but I've never seen his fowl shown. He didn't push his fowl on me either.
YFIS,
gallero210

senor did you see any green legged grey in Mr.Cavazo's farm thanks jb.

[ernest akins]

Originally Posted by chef11

ernest akins,
say hello to your to sons, in kentucky. do you have the generals ? or oscar does?

from .. howie the chief.

Howie, how you doing my friend?
Been a long time, are you in Hawaii? man I'd love to see you.
Ernest

[gallero210]

Originally Posted by john barrocan

senor did you see any green legged grey in Mr.Cavazo's farm thanks jb.

He has the frost greys on his place but he did tell me that he infused some golden hatch into the frost greys. Hope this helps you.
YFIS,
gallero210

[rogeroleo]

Hey Ernest, Since we got your attention. What hatch blood line do you have? And does Oscar have or had a famed Hatch Blood called the Hawkeye Hatch? What is there make up and where did he get them. Thanks Roger

[ernest akins]

Originally Posted by rogeroleo

Hey Ernest, Since we got your attention. What hatch blood line do you have? And does Oscar have or had a famed Hatch Blood called the Hawkeye Hatch? What is there make up and where did he get them. Thanks Roger

Roger, I've never heard of a Hawk Eye Hatch.
Back in the day, Oscar fought some really good Boston/Hatch crosses in Ok., I don't remember if it was Kellyville, or Marietta, but they won the Derby. They would just drop roosters out of the air like a Chicken Hawk, so Gene Stover, of the COCK & BULL was there and during the fights he hollered out "THE HAWK's",
so after that everyone called them Hawk's.
I don't know where people got the Hawk Eye Hatch from, could be they got a liver eyed brood cock, maybe told he was hawk eyed or something, you know how that goes.