SELECTION - the real key to winning!

[The Saint]

Originally Posted by jailbird

In my observation, all things being more or less equal, if you make a line perpendicular you the ground up to the head of the rooster while striking ( lets call this the "head line") roosters who hit with their spur behind their head line have less chances of winning than those that strike with their spurs up front. The further up front the better.

Hhhhmmm.... it would be nice if you could illustrate this Mr Jailbird. For some reason, I'm slow today. Strike two na me on this one.

[Darkside]

7+ primary tail feathers signify cutting abilities...

[brownred kelso]

Selection of a cutting stroke goes back to first and formost conformation,,then to gameness, attitude, desire and style,,,,,,,,,the cutting stroke of a gamecock is very similar to the motion of cutting with a scythe and a wide bodied (fat) person can't cut worth a toot with the scythe and same with a wide backed rooster, as i have never seen a big wide saddled back cock that was a devistating cutting machine,,,,they'll beat one to death every now and again but surgical cutting,,,you can forget it.......and i might add,,,,,,the bow backed rooster or the hunch backed cock, alot of sectors will allow these babys to slide into the line up at times,,,,look through the losers for defects sometime,,, you'll see a pile of mistakes that will result in exactly where they now reside,,,,,,also slightly knock knee'd,,,,,a long drum and a shorter shank,,,,spur set low as possible,,,i like a cock that is set so low,, it's alittle difficult to heel,,,,finally,,,the set of the heels,,,,i always tried to select a heel that is merely an extention of what is there to work with,unless the heel has hit something during growth and moved it from the original position,,never ask the warrior to fight a fight that puts him in a disadvantage,,,,,,,,finally Mr. Hatch came up with a selection guide that would really help as it lists all the more favorable attributes,,,if anyone has this to print,,,i have it somewhere but has been misplaced,,,,,BRK

[swallow]

Originally Posted by Darkside

7+ primary tail feathers signify cutting abilities...

What does the tail feathers have to do with cutting? shouldn't it be the feet? Also if they do not have any tail feathers does it mean they won't cut?

[Darkside]

Originally Posted by swallow

What does the tail feathers have to do with cutting? shouldn't it be the feet? Also if they do not have any tail feathers does it mean they won't cut?

it just a sign of good cutting the book says lol...just sharing what i read in the asilmania book...

[ChinaRose]

Originally Posted by swallow

What does the tail feathers have to do with cutting? shouldn't it be the feet? Also if they do not have any tail feathers does it mean they won't cut?

am no expert but it is much like a'timon'
the tail feather is the one that holds the
balance while the bird uses his feet for
multiple shuffling while going backwards.

am NO expert just giving my opinion here.

[slwnstdy]

Originally Posted by ChinaRose

am no expert but it is much like a'timon'
the tail feather is the one that holds the
balance while the bird uses his feet for
multiple shuffling while going backwards.

am NO expert just giving my opinion here.

Wow, China, you have made me think....musta na?

why did my post made you think ? lol !!! I have fowls
that can do that just that: use their tails to defend
themselves of course it is still the feet that does
the killing...but having strong tails is also very integral
to the over all abiliity and condition of the birds.

am ok slw... howdy to you too...


Swallow, is it possible???

[swallow]

Originally Posted by slwnstdy

Swallow, is it possible???

I don't see any correlation between the two. Though i do look at the part of the tail not for cutting, i just cannot explain it properly but it has to do with the "center of gravity" for a specific act of the bird during action that allows him to extend his reach with his head leaning back. For me the cutting ability can be seen by the manner a bird deliver its feet towards the opponent. It is not even the power, but the angle by which the feet is thrown, accounts for the cutting ability

[FILAMEX]

I've seen roosters without tails(tokong) cut very well. Strong wings and strong legs are most important for efficient cutting. My two cents.
BTW, would somebody please elaborate more about "Maluang na Silong"? Does it have a correlation with a wide backed bird?
Thanks

[lurena]

Originally Posted by Darkside

7+ primary tail feathers signify cutting abilities...

This is straight nonsense. Like other people have mentioned the "bolo" fowl without tail cut good. So what does the 7 feathers have to do with cutting.

[jailbird]

Another importnt indicator of winning ability is the speed by which a bird turns and gives a follow up punch

[ebednar]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Another importnt indicator of winning ability is the speed by which a bird turns and gives a follow up punch

Exactly, proper preportion and balance. Strength with speed multable licks fast with power. Your broodcock needs this too

[jailbird]

Originally Posted by FILAMEX

I've seen roosters without tails(tokong) cut very well. Strong wings and strong legs are most important for efficient cutting. My two cents.
BTW, would somebody please elaborate more about "Maluang na Silong"? Does it have a correlation with a wide backed bird?
Thanks

Hi Nemy, from my understanding and selection process, i interpret this as a bird with normal legs, shank angles, and maluwang or wide silong means the legs are set apart. The further away from each other - two parallel legs are - the better. Pls note parallel, if not he could be sakang or bow legged. Or piki or knockneed. The knees and toes should more or less be equidistant to each other - from there the wider the stance the better. Physiologically it can only go as wide as the carcass will permit.
While there is a correlation between back width and silong - personally i do not prefer wide backs. Usually these indicate bulky birds. Great maybe for endurance/power fighting. Ala Brock Lesnar or lou Ferrigno and Arnold Swarzenneger - but not for the knife.

I like my fowl sleek, well balanced, flexible and extremely fast - like Bruce Lee, Anderson Silva and George St Pierre ;-) my breeding and feeding works towrds those ideals. Many of my birds are at the 1800 to 2 kg weight range. Medium sized but high proportion. The challenge is not only in the breeding or selecting these birds. It is actually in feeding them right - ask Pacquaios handlers ;-) boxing i mean ;-)

[ChinaRose]

Originally Posted by swallow

I don't see any correlation between the two. Though i do look at the part of the tail not for cutting, i just cannot explain it properly but it has to do with the "center of gravity" for a specific act of the bird during action that allows him to extend his reach with his head leaning back. For me the cutting ability can be seen by the manner a bird deliver its feet towards the opponent. It is not even the power, but the angle by which the feet is thrown, accounts for the cutting ability

swallow howdy to you too !!!
edwin estabillo explained this in one of the
zambo thread about 9 years ago... but I can
not exactly remember too.

[FILAMEX]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Hi Nemy, from my understanding and selection process, i interpret this as a bird with normal legs, shank angles, and maluwang or wide silong means the legs are set apart. The further away from each other - two parallel legs are - the better. Pls note parallel, if not he could be sakang or bow legged. Or piki or knockneed. The knees and toes should more or less be equidistant to each other - from there the wider the stance the better. Physiologically it can only go as wide as the carcass will permit.
While there is a correlation between back width and silong - personally i do not prefer wide backs. Usually these indicate bulky birds. Great maybe for endurance/power fighting. Ala Brock Lesnar or lou Ferrigno and Arnold Swarzenneger - but not for the knife.

I like my fowl sleek, well balanced, flexible and extremely fast - like Bruce Lee, Anderson Silva and George St Pierre ;-) my breeding and feeding works towrds those ideals. Many of my birds are at the 1800 to 2 kg weight range. Medium sized but high proportion. The challenge is not only in the breeding or selecting these birds. It is actually in feeding them right - ask Pacquaios handlers ;-) boxing i mean ;-)

Thanks sir Jb. "Maluang na Silong" is so confusing at least to me as how could you have two legs wide apart with a narrow back? Normal parallel legs, knock kneed(piki), and bow legged(sakang) could all be found on birds with wide or narrow backs. I do believe though that, if not extreme, a knock kneed bird and bow legged birds can cut well.

[jailbird]

Originally Posted by FILAMEX

Thanks sir Jb. "Maluang na Silong" is so confusing at least to me as how could you have two legs wide apart with a narrow back? Normal parallel legs, knock kneed(piki), and bow legged(sakang) could all be found on birds with wide or narrow backs. I do believe though that, if not extreme, a knock kneed bird and bow legged birds can cut well.

Yup actually normal parralel legs are already maluang ang sikong. Knockneed obviously masikip ang silong. sakang sobrang luag ng silong hahahahahaha. But i agree with cutting. Ask gamecock96 - his bird killed the opposition with fly.

[blackhatchfarm]

Talk to a winner he may tell you.

[redkarani]

i'm a beginner and i believe that a good bloodline and a good nutrition add to it the good conditioning program will make the selection of our rooster more easier...as the late sir emoy said "to fight right we must breed right and to breed right we must start right..."

[jlbs72]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Yup actually normal parralel legs are already maluang ang sikong. Knockneed obviously masikip ang silong. sakang sobrang luag ng silong hahahahahaha. But i agree with cutting. Ask gamecock96 - his bird killed the opposition with fly.

Tsamba lang yun, hahaha... magaling lang yung nagtari.

lets try it again this coming may 6, different gaffer and blade, LOL.

[jailbird]

Hahahahaha naughty boy! But yes the bird is still there i think. Yes this time YOU gaff him hahaahhahaha!

[jailbird]

Originally Posted by brownred kelso

Selection of a cutting stroke goes back to first and formost conformation,,then to gameness, attitude, desire and style,,,,,,,,,the cutting stroke of a gamecock is very similar to the motion of cutting with a scythe and a wide bodied (fat) person can't cut worth a toot with the scythe and same with a wide backed rooster, as i have never seen a big wide saddled back cock that was a devistating cutting machine,,,,they'll beat one to death every now and again but surgical cutting,,,you can forget it.......and i might add,,,,,,the bow backed rooster or the hunch backed cock, alot of sectors will allow these babys to slide into the line up at times,,,,look through the losers for defects sometime,,, you'll see a pile of mistakes that will result in exactly where they now reside,,,,,,also slightly knock knee'd,,,,,a long drum and a shorter shank,,,,spur set low as possible,,,i like a cock that is set so low,, it's alittle difficult to heel,,,,finally,,,the set of the heels,,,,i always tried to select a heel that is merely an extention of what is there to work with,unless the heel has hit something during growth and moved it from the original position,,never ask the warrior to fight a fight that puts him in a disadvantage,,,,,,,,finally Mr. Hatch came up with a selection guide that would really help as it lists all the more favorable attributes,,,if anyone has this to print,,,i have it somewhere but has been misplaced,,,,,BRK

Thanks BRK, it would be nice if you could find the selection guide of Mr. Hatch. or anyone here who may have it - please share - thanks!!!

[jlbs72]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Hahahahaha naughty boy! But yes the bird is still there i think. Yes this time YOU gaff him hahaahhahaha!

i'll ask golden dragon first kung anong magandang luto sa manok na yun, LOL.

[meme ragudo]

1. Health - if we were the ones who breed and rared our fighters, we always consider those who grew up free from sickness and any disease in his lifetime.

2. Body and structure conformation - height and weight must be proportion.

3. Fighting Style and Power - we can observe this through frequent sparring of at most ones a week but of course when our fighters is in its top shape and not molting.

4. Eating habit - fighters who eats tremendously emptying his feeder in seconds and drinks a lot is a better choice

5. Mannerism - there are cocks in our farms who has mannerisms that as if it has its own mind. select him

5. Gut feel - select him if you feel he has more chances of winning

[ChinaRose]

Originally Posted by jlbs72

i'll ask golden dragon first kung anong magandang luto sa manok na yun, LOL.

jlbs72... when it comes to food ako lagi kasale
but it is nice to served food kay jlbs72 he really eats
a lot but he knows how to sing praises too so it
makes me feel good....

[malalim]

with a broodcock you have the benefit of the bitaw/sparring, but in the case of the broodhen (you dont have this or at least most hens) I would like to get other people's idea on selecting a broodhen...[

How do you select a broodhen?

[ebednar]

Originally Posted by malalim

with a broodcock you have the benefit of the bitaw/sparring, but in the case of the broodhen (you dont have this or at least most hens) I would like to get other people's idea on selecting a broodhen...[

How do you select a broodhen?

Body conformation, size (not to small), her fathers and brothers record.

[oddbird66]

Originally Posted by meme ragudo

1. Health - if we were the ones who breed and rared our fighters, we always consider those who grew up free from sickness and any disease in his lifetime.

2. Body and structure conformation - height and weight must be proportion.

3. Fighting Style and Power - we can observe this through frequent sparring of at most ones a week but of course when our fighters is in its top shape and not molting.

4. Eating habit - fighters who eats tremendously emptying his feeder in seconds and drinks a lot is a better choice

5. Mannerism - there are cocks in our farms who has mannerisms that as if it has its own mind. select him

5. Gut feel - select him if you feel he has more chances of winning

On point Sir, especially the last two... I like watching roosters on cord and base selection on gut feel and mannerisms of the birds. I believe Sir jeb and Sir Joey have seen me do it...

[brownred kelso]

Originally Posted by jailbird

Thanks BRK, it would be nice if you could find the selection guide of Mr. Hatch. or anyone here who may have it - please share - thanks!!!

I remember reading this information several times over the years, Hatch must have been the premier selection specialist of his day,,,as the guide he developed listed in detail exactly what you were looking for in selection process for developing outstanding stock and therefore improving the flock...Wish i could locate, as i think it would be of tremendous benefit to everyone and be the outstanding resource to the beginner,,,,BRK

[meme ragudo]

Originally Posted by malalim

with a broodcock you have the benefit of the bitaw/sparring, but in the case of the broodhen (you dont have this or at least most hens) I would like to get other people's idea on selecting a broodhen...[

How do you select a broodhen?

1. health - at least she is free from extreme sickness & disease in her lifetime. very healthy.

2. physical profile - heavy bone, round firm body, proportionality of body to height, round big shiny red eyes, shiny tight feathers.

3. bloodline - belongs to top performing bloodlines whether she be pure or cross bred.

3. performance of direct relatives - at least her father, full or half brothers or the line to which she belongs are performers weather in the pit or better producers for the case of the females. bloodline doesn't belong to sickly offsprings.

4. eating habit - she eats anything edible to fowls and picks her food like there will be no more feeding therafter. takes everything to the last grain

5. dominance - dominant among other chickens yet very gentle when we take hold of them.

6. mannerisms - there are hens whose got mannerisms and habits as if it has minds of their own.

[Bugarin]

Originally Posted by brownred kelso

For example all cutting ability being equel,,,,,the evasive grounder will usually win out over all comers,,,the flyer is at a decisive disadvantage on the ground and a true grounder will do exactly that,,,course, the problem is finding the evasive grounders, they are kinda like finding hens teeth,,,,,,,,BRK

Mr. Brk how are you like always it's a pleasure to read your posts. I was thinking about you the other day there is an American named butch who fights all of Jr bells roosters down here in Mexico and he's been unstoppable down here. Well the more I talk to him and see him fight the more I realize that he's feeding method is very similar to yours maybe not exactly but very similar and there is nobody that can out cut him down here and I mean in big mains against the biggest teams in Mexico.