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Thread: Proper Conditioning.

  
  1. #151
    CyberFriends Maning's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    mine is 364 days and practice the witch craft ritual on the day of the fight. hahaha.


    maning

  2. #152
    Member alimbuyugin's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Para sakin pre-conditioning first is the best para makita mo n may ibubuga pa ang manok mo,tama lang na dahan-dahan sa vitamins,it will come naturally at dapat ilaban paghanda na ang manok at di ang amo.....heheheh goodluck po sa inyo..

  3. #153
    alex-g1
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    IMHO.......there are a lot of ways and style in conditioning of fowls. Some do it as an individual contioner or team of conditioners with different methods (or kanya-kanyang diskarte). Some will do it the natural and conservative way. Some will do it with enhancer drugs (doping), ergogenic aids, some are injectable obsessed or happy (be it drugs or vitamin/minerals) or "turok nang turok" because it is the in-thing or fad, and some will run around endlessly, constantly changing, and applying the methods of whoever is the latest derby champion. It is like casting your fishing line near the person who just landed a big catch, and suddenly you will retrieve your line and run towards another person a hundred yards away and also cast there because he just caught a much bigger one. Some will apply a little voodoo or quackery/magic, or astrology like scales reading and moon, tide cycles and maybe some encantations, who knows? Others will apply a combination of of any of the above, and others will rely solely on luck. It is like a never ending quest to some to get that pot of gold.

    Some people prefers a more scientific way. They will dig deeper to study and have an in-depth knowledge of the chicken's physiology, biochemistry,metabolism, nutrition, energy metabolic pathways, basic instinct and behavior, their needs, and some outside invironmental factors that may affect all of these. They will strive to know and defend why they are giving these or that, and why you should not give these or that. They know what is sensible and what is too much. They will do their part of the job intently, and leave the final outcome to luck.

    Whatever your style or methods, if you are happy and it works on you, go ahead and apply it. But if I have to choose among these several ways and methods, I will apply the last method a hundred percent and without doubt.

  4. #154
    tatodupaya
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Nicely said Alex

  5. #155
    Senior Member reongmanchi63's Avatar
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    Helpful feeding table for conditioning coming from an old American Cocker...

    Oats,other Green Feeds,Fish Oil, Chopped Liver and Buttermilk in right Proportions With Corn Make Up A Proven Menu For Training.

    The correct foods for fighting cocks are a much discussed subject discussed subject throughout the rank and file of the followers of our sport but even so. it is much more important than many cockers realize.
    Due to the work of our modern experimental laboratories for poultry breeders and agricultural schools, the successful cockers of today have found that many methods of feeding gamecocks for battle that were used in grandfather's day are now considered as far behind the times as model T-Ford is to our late-model Cadillac.
    This article is not written to provoke argument, but to help anyone who wants sound advice to better his percentage of his winners in the cockpit. I will attempt to give you a known and proven of the kind of food and amount a fighting cock should have while in from a country walks for six weeks before fighting,assuming that cocks are in sound flesh and feather on arrival.
    All cocks now are wormed, deloused and have their spurs sawn, place in large, clean scratch pens with at least six feet clearance for high swings, and with a roost pole in sheltered back of the pen.
    Your morning feed for each cock throughout the entire six six weeks' period should be a level dram glass to each cock up to five pounds weight, of clean Canadian yellow flint corn, mixed half and half with a good large grade of oats.Seed oats are to be preffered.Cocks over five pounds should have a heaping dram glass full.
    Oats not only supply much energy but roughage, as well, and it can be fed in all climates, either wet or dry,as oats always are good for chickens, even if damp enough to sprout.In the latte stage other grains will mold and become unfit for fowl.
    At midday, fresh green leaves of lettuce, a bite of banana, ripe apple, leaves of green alfalfa or pecan meats always are relished to keep birds cheerful and contented. It is advisable to have wooden boxes just inside of each pen, with oats sprouting through the one -inch wire mesh, available for the cocks at all times.
    The evening feed should be country-churned buttermilk and crushed oats.To this, add two tablespoons(per gallon mixed)of cod liver oil,halibut or sardines oil.Any of the three mentioned are satisfactorily.
    The fish oil is important, not only for the strength it provides, but it keeps the feathers flexible and glossy.Give each cock three level tablespoon in his feed cup each evening for four weeks.In the last two weeks of the keep feed the above keep every other evening, the skip being replaced by your regular morning grain.
    It is suggested that beef liver, chopped in very small pieces, be fed at least twice a week.The whole should be about the size of a ping-pong ball for each cock.Grated charcoal and granite grit also should be sprinkled lightly over the evening feed once a week.
    Fresh water should always be available for each cock, as they drink only what they need, but this not take the place of feed.It is amusing to read some methods of feeding cocks for battle that are passed on beginners in our sport.Many of these never mention the amount to feed each cock.The amount is as important as the feed itself.Any cock in confinement,if going through the conditioning routine properly, is hungry almost all the time and would it a full cup if it were placed before him.
    If a cock leaves grain in the scratch pen or in the feed cup, he either is overfed or unhealthy,one of the two. It is much more harmful to a fighting cock's digestive system to overfeed than not to give him enough.There are more chickens killed through "kindness of feeding," in both young chicks and battle cocks, than by all other things combined.
    The amount of food I have mentioned for morning and evening feedings throughout this six weeks conditioning will not cause a cock to gain or lose any more weight than he should, unless he is being overworked on the bench the last two weeks.
    If he is going too thin, to your knowledge, don't add to his feed but cut down on his work and exercise.
    As for exercising and bench work, you must be the sole judge of that.Various strains require more or less bench exercises than others. Never overworked a gamecock as this will lose you time and, reputation and money.
    Along with the correct food goes sanitation. Always wash out and scald feed cups daily. Clean all scratch pens regularly. Add fresh shucks and straw when needed. Each week, spade up the ground around the fly swings and roost pole.Add limes mixed with sand, to the soil to keep it soft and fresh.
    Have small openings outside each pen where feed and water cups may be hung.This prevents litter from being scratched into the drinking water.
    The food for fighting cocks that I have mentioned here has been tried and proven to be successful by some leading cockers who, for competitive and professional reasons have, kept it a secret.It is no longer a secret with me.My work, family and the closing of our local pits now keep from being as active in the sport as I was for many years. Cockfighting is, and always has been a hobby with me. My work and my family come first.
    So I pass this information on to men with open minds who love a good healthy gamecock as I do and always will.

  6. #156
    alex-g1
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    these vitamins and minerals supplements, it takes only from 10 to 14 successive days of giving more than what your fowl needs before its adverse effects starts showing and ruins the performance of an otherwise healthy and good fighting birds. Not so much with the water soluble vitamins that are being excreted if they are in excess but the fat soluble and most of the minerals are toxic in excess and accumulates in their system. So the longer you are giving it, the more damage it does to your fowls, contrary to the belief that the longer we condition our fowl, the better they become. Even the b-complex vitamins, have an adverse effect if given in overdose over a very long period of time. Any thing given in doses more than what they need is an overdose. Some might say that b-complex have no overdose, when what is in their mind or what they really mean is TOXICITY, and even so, is a waste of money. In some rare cases thiamin (b1) shock may happen if they are sensitive to it, but it is really rare that until now, I have'nt seen one yet.

    Let's say Vitamin A, only one of around 30 or more of vit/minerals needed in their diet.
    How much vitamin A an average full grown chicken needs on a daily basis to sustain its needs of this vitamin and stay non deficient? Mostly, their needs can be supplied from their natural food (grains/seeds) in carotenoid form and from mash/pelletized feeds in carotenoids, palmitate, and retinol form because they enriched with vitamin/mineral premix during manufacture and are considered complete feeds under normal, favorable, and ideal condition. And supplements are needed to be given during stress (laying, breeding, fighting, disease, convalescense and more).

    If you overdose on Vit.A by giving too much complete vitamin/mineral supplement to them, consequently they will get an overdose of all the other vitamins and minerals in equal proportion from this supplement. If they feel dizzy, lethargic, and whatever in Vit.A overdose, they will feel even more dizzier in the overdose of all these vit/mineral collectively. Some will inject b-complex periodically, and at the same time give pills and powder orally on a daily basis.

    If we face a panel or group of people that will ask or question us, how are we going to defend and justify our hypothesis and actions that we are giving a way too high of these supplements orally and in injections so that our fowls will feel good, energetic, and alert to perform well in the pit?

  7. #157
    alex-g1
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    vitamin A is extremely toxic and fatal in very high dosage even from natural sources. As an example, if you eat just a mere 50 grams of polar bear bear's liver or even lesser, this is more likely to kill you. Just a 50 grams of it can have as high as 15,000,000 to 30,000,000 I.U. of vitamin A. Same with seal's liver and arctic dog's liver (like the Malamute, huskies, samoyeds), though not bad as the polar bear's. People get sick at 100,000 I.U. or an equvalent of 10.000 I.U. in chickens, the amount you can get in about 3 caplets of centrum vitamins if you give it to chickens. Although you don't give three caplets to your chicken in one time, because they are fat soluble, they will accumulate in your chicken's system eventually. Even if they only have a 500 I.U. of extra that they can not use on a daily basis, it will only take 20 days before their storage reach a 10,000 I.U. limit that will sicken them. But normally, it's adverse effects is noticeable as early as just over a week if you observe closely.

    This is only on a single specicfic vitamin, the A that we are talking about.

  8. #158
    zenmaster
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    Thumbs up Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Korek Ka Dyan!

  9. #159
    TingKill
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by alex-g1
    vitamin A is extremely toxic and fatal in very high dosage even from natural sources. As an example, if you eat just a mere 50 grams of polar bear bear's liver or even lesser, this is more likely to kill you. Just a 50 grams of it can have as high as 15,000,000 to 30,000,000 I.U. of vitamin A. Same with seal's liver and arctic dog's liver (like the Malamute, huskies, samoyeds), though not bad as the polar bear's. People get sick at 100,000 I.U. or an equvalent of 10.000 I.U. in chickens, the amount you can get in about 3 caplets of centrum vitamins if you give it to chickens. Although you don't give three caplets to your chicken in one time, because they are fat soluble, they will accumulate in your chicken's system eventually. Even if they only have a 500 I.U. of extra that they can not use on a daily basis, it will only take 20 days before their storage reach a 10,000 I.U. limit that will sicken them. But normally, it's adverse effects is noticeable as early as just over a week if you observe closely.

    This is only on a single specicfic vitamin, the A that we are talking about.
    sir alex,,can you post here what are the vitamins & minerals RDA of chickens...???i tried to find that info on the web but to no avail.....

  10. #160
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Bullet2. I recomend you to buy Dr. Teddy Tanchanco's book "ON GAMECOCK CONDITIONING". You will learn a lot. For me it's a complete package. Its improved my winning record. Training of cocks for battle starts from day 1 after they're hatched.

  11. #161
    Senior Member CrookedToe's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by neildivine
    PROPER CONDITIONING

    I definitely agree that 365 days a year-care is second to none and that year-round well-cared cocks will mostly whip cocks that are only properly handled for 21 days even if rested for only a day.

    But I beg to argue that a 21-day conditioning is the most ideal period for the following reason;

    First, I believe that conditioning entails training and work-out for our cocks and if we do these whole year-round, we would most likely produce muscle-bound or burned-out cocks. I also like to do the bell-curve type of conditioning coz cocks are usually more primed for peak performance going into the fight with this system.

    Second, is that since we subject our battle cocks to intense training and work-out at a certain point of the conditioning period, we also have to give them a higher-protein diet compared to itís usual ration. Giving this kind of feed for over 21 days will usually result to premature molting and could also pose health problems to our cocks.

    Third, is that our 365 days a year well-cared cocks will surely have the edge using this system. However, victory is not really guaranteed since there are still a lot of other factors that could spill the difference in this sport but if you have a solid bloodline every fight would be worth every penny spent.
    I beleive this to be true. You can't neglect your fowl in the off season and expect them to perform during the season.

  12. #162
    klynefowl
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    Wink Re: Proper Conditioning.

    -)

  13. #163
    klynefowl
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    Wink Re: Proper Conditioning.

    pitgods you have nice toys, most of them long hair. -)

  14. #164
    dogmancarter
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    You should always try not to od the cocks.

  15. #165
    BULLET2
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    Smile Re: Proper Conditioning.

    R&j Apatot,

    Thanks A Lot Pre For The Suggestions. We Are All Open Here For Better Conditioning Programs.

  16. #166
    dogmancarter
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    How many forms of injectable B complex is there on the market.

  17. #167
    Member jude torres's Avatar
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    Arrow Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Sa farm ng eureka nina Mr. rey Briones at Congressman Prospero Pichay, meron kaming 500 na nasa cord, close to 300 combine stags and pullets.
    20 broodcocks and 90 proven hens...
    not included yong 100 pre conditioned roosters...
    _____

    intense caring and feeding...

  18. #168
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    Re:Pagkagagaling ng mga ITO

    ang dami ko na namang natutunan sa inyo mga kakmates....
    maraming salamat sa mga TIPS n COMENTS nyo.

    happy VALENTINE sa nyong lahat....

  19. #169
    BULLET2
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    COCKMATES,

    Do not over exercise your cocks, it will be stressfull for them. Just give them the natural way and you'll see the good effect. GOODLUCK BUDDIES!!!!

  20. #170
    ricko
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    How many times to deworm the cock when conditioning?

  21. #171
    Senior Member grey/dom's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    at least once deworming..the most is twice for me....when you didnt know the patern..u will overexercise ur cocks...the secret is the resting period..

    conditioning= a period of feeding and exercise preceeding fight. The time varies from 3 to 21 days. Most cockers prefer 14 day period with a 14 day pre keep. The purpose is to bring into the pit a gamecock at his lowest possible weight, his greatest strength and peak of speed, stamina and endurance...from the wires...

  22. #172
    Senior Member chrisgeoff21's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    ask ko lang po kung papano nagiging mapula balat sa pwetan ng manok pag kinundisyon?nu tinuturok o pinapakain?thanks

  23. #173
    Member garuda77's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    it really does'nt matter how long you condition as long you sensed that your battlecock is already suited for the fight, CHICKEN SENSE ika nga. But 21 days I suggest is ideal.

  24. #174
    BULLET2
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    ORIGINALLY POSTED BY GARUDA77

    it really does'nt matter how long you condition as long you sensed that your battlecock is already suited for the fight, CHICKEN SENSE ika nga. But 21 days I suggest is ideal.



  25. #175
    Senior Member lanipao's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Deworm,delouse,nasal declogging/flushing,antibiotic flushing and balance diet.
    Day 1,6,12----complexor 3000---you can play around .3 to .5 cc depending on weight.
    Day 10---red gel forte
    Shell grits from day 1 to 10
    Carbo loading starting day 12
    Day 14 fight day.
    You can never go wrong with this method.

  26. #176
    BULLET2
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by lanipao
    Deworm,delouse,nasal declogging/flushing,antibiotic flushing and balance diet.
    Day 1,6,12----complexor 3000---you can play around .3 to .5 cc depending on weight.
    Day 10---red gel forte
    Shell grits from day 1 to 10
    Carbo loading starting day 12
    Day 14 fight day.
    You can never go wrong with this method.

    Lanipao Batch,

    Thanks for the additional input on the proper conditioning. Batch, can you PM. me your other methods, and program exercise.

  27. #177
    Senior Member lanipao's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Bullet,the problem with some handlers is they want to give everything during conditioning.Most of the time the fowls get overworked and they indulge in polypharmacy without realizing that its already toxic to the fowls.They give different kinds of vitamins with the belief that it will make the fowls stronger which is false.Vitamins and minerals should be used in moderation to correct deficiencies.If fowls don't have any deficiency,they will be of no value and just be wasted or can cause poisoning just like in iron.There is a balance of each and giving more to one will cause a drop in the other.Example is potassium.If you give too of it much, sodium levels will drop.B vitamins are more safer to use because they are water soluble and excess can be excreted right away.How ever the other vitamins A,D,E,K can build up in the system and it may take weeks before they are eliminated.Too much of it wil be detrimental to our birds health.Example too much of Vitamin D without enough calcium can cause brittle bones instead of making them stronger as well as too much calcium can cause a decrease in bodies PH level making them more alkaline which is dangerous.These are just points to ponder.

  28. #178
    Senior Member sonaja782005's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    should we considered the age of the cock when conditioning him for the fyt
    when applying see 8 days keep, 14days, 21 days or more? or not?ty

  29. #179
    Senior Member chrisgeoff21's Avatar
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonaja782005
    should we considered the age of the cock when conditioning him for the fyt
    when applying see 8 days keep, 14days, 21 days or more? or not?ty
    yes sir age is very important....because stags compared to cocks is given lighter exercise regimes....just an opinion

  30. #180
    BULLET2
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    Re: Proper Conditioning.

    lanipao,


    Thanks For The Info, Atleast This Could Help Anyone Here To Avoid Giving Too Much Vitamines And Minerals Which Will Make The Cocks Overwork And Will BE Too Dangerous For Their Health Instead.
    Last edited by BULLET2; March 4th, 2007 at 03:38 PM.

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